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Author Topic:   Standing Alone: the Great Pyramid
kuresu
Member (Idle past 1752 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 61 of 77 (387438)
02-28-2007 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 2:21 PM


Re: A timeline
and blacks can't be racist? oh come on, grow up and face the real world, ray.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 62 of 77 (387440)
02-28-2007 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 1:49 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
I refer you to my previous post - I note that you do not dispute that the simple existence of an ascending passage is not unique.. The Great Pyramid is different in degree, not kind. It represents the height of Egyptian pyramid building in terms of the resources and time dedicated to building it, but that seems to be all. I see no reason to propose that there is anything wrong with the conventional view.

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 Message 55 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-28-2007 1:49 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-28-2007 5:52 PM PaulK has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4198 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 63 of 77 (387461)
02-28-2007 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 2:04 PM


Re: couple of qs
In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt

This is something that is yet to happen Ray. Read the whole chapter, it is an oracle foretelling a future event.

Don't you think that Isaiah is a weird place to have this reference. I would have thought that Exodus would be more appropriate:

They built the store cities of Pithom and Rameses, and a mother of a pyramid in the midst of the land.

Can you tell me if my thinking is correct here?

You are claiming that Yahweh got the Egyptians to enslave the Israelites and have them build a tomb for Cheops?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 64 of 77 (387476)
02-28-2007 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Brian
02-28-2007 4:34 PM


Re: couple of qs
In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt

Brian writes:

This is something that is yet to happen Ray. Read the whole chapter, it is an oracle foretelling a future event.

Isaiah, is, of course, a major prophet, BUT the office of prophet does not always mean that the words he speaks is future; prophet simply denotes the person who speaks for the Deity.

"that day" refers to the future days of "a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them" (verse 20).

That is, in the days of the legacy of the Saviour (= the Church age; the last days).

It is only in these last days that the GP has been decoded since the science could not be understood until the 20th century.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Brian, posted 02-28-2007 4:34 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Brian, posted 03-01-2007 1:46 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 65 of 77 (387482)
02-28-2007 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Brian
02-28-2007 4:34 PM


Re: couple of qs
Don't you think that Isaiah is a weird place to have this reference. I would have thought that Exodus would be more appropriate:

They built the store cities of Pithom and Rameses, and a mother of a pyramid in the midst of the land.

Can you tell me if my thinking is correct here?

Since it is in Isaiah the point is moot.

Brian: where did you get this rendering; "and a mother of a pyramid in the midst of the land"?

I subscribe to an early GP erection (circa 10,000 BC). We know Egypt arose after the Flood circa 3000 BC.

You are claiming that Yahweh got the Egyptians to enslave the Israelites and have them build a tomb for Cheops?

Negative.

I am saying that Enoch built the GP to encapsulate Biblical claims before they were written; thus confirming that the Literary claims have not been corrupted.

The GP was built before Egypt surfaced as a civilization.

Brian: how do you explain the fact that no heiroglyphics written in the GP but the same covers all other pyramids?

Are you familiar with the writings of I.E.S. Edwards?

Ray


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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 66 of 77 (387485)
02-28-2007 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by PaulK
02-28-2007 2:35 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
I refer you to my previous post - I note that you do not dispute that the simple existence of an ascending passage is not unique.

Yes it is.

The evidence of the interiors shows that only the GP has ascending passages.

The Great Pyramid is different in degree, not kind. It represents the height of Egyptian pyramid building in terms of the resources and time dedicated to building it, but that seems to be all. I see no reason to propose that there is anything wrong with the conventional view.

I have asked a simple question, which I will repeat: Based on the OP links showing the GP to have ascending passages and all the others have none; what is YOUR explanation? How come not even ONE other pyramid has what the GP has?

I find your explanation wanting and unsatisfying (to say the least).

We (= pyramidologists) conclude that this is prima facie evidence supporting the conclusion that Egypt did not build the GP (unlike all the others).

The Egyptian Book of the Dead calls the GP the "pillar of Enoch." They admit that they did not build it.

Ray


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 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 02-28-2007 2:35 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by PaulK, posted 02-28-2007 6:15 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 68 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2007 12:13 AM Cold Foreign Object has replied
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-03-2007 1:32 PM Cold Foreign Object has taken no action

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 67 of 77 (387488)
02-28-2007 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 5:52 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
quote:

Yes it is.

The evidence of the interiors shows that only the GP has ascending passages.


I have produced counter examples. You have produced no reasons to dismiss even one of them. I presume that this is due to - in your words - an "inability to refute".

quote:

I have asked a simple question, which I will repeat: Based on the OP links showing the GP to have ascending passages and all the others have none; what is YOUR explanation? How come not even ONE other pyramid has what the GP has?


My explanation is that it is not true.

quote:

The Egyptian Book of the Dead calls the GP the "pillar of Enoch." They admit that they did not build it.


I suspect that this is completely false. The only reference I have been able to find is of the Mormon "Prophet" Joseph Smith claiming that the Pillar of Enoch was depicted on an Egyptian scroll. Translations of the Book of the Dead are available. Give me a reasonable reference and I will investigate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-28-2007 5:52 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 03-01-2007 3:27 PM PaulK has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 290 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 68 of 77 (387537)
03-01-2007 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 5:52 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
I have asked a simple question, which I will repeat: Based on the OP links showing the GP to have ascending passages and all the others have none; what is YOUR explanation? How come not even ONE other pyramid has what the GP has?

I find your explanation wanting and unsatisfying (to say the least).

We (= pyramidologists) conclude that this is prima facie evidence supporting the conclusion that Egypt did not build the GP (unlike all the others).

Right. It was built around the same time as the others, on the same site, from the same materials, taken from the same quarries, using the same techniques, in the same shape, with the same orientation, but it has ascending passages so it must have been built by a completely different set of people.

In the same way, although the Sydney Opera House otherwise has all the hallmarks of twentieth-century architecture, no other building has a roof like that, so it must have been built by space aliens.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4198 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 69 of 77 (387608)
03-01-2007 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Cold Foreign Object
02-28-2007 5:18 PM


Re: couple of qs
Isaiah, is, of course, a major prophet, BUT the office of prophet does not always mean that the words he speaks is future; prophet simply denotes the person who speaks for the Deity.

I know, but the context of the chapter clearly foretells of a future event.

"that day" refers to the future days of "a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them" (verse 20).

This hasn't happened yet.

Look at a little more of the chapter:

In that day the Egyptians will be like women. They will shudder with fear at the uplifted hand that the LORD Almighty raises against them. 17 And the land of Judah will bring terror to the Egyptians; everyone to whom Judah is mentioned will be terrified, because of what the LORD Almighty is planning against them.

18 In that day five cities in Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear allegiance to the LORD Almighty. One of them will be called the City of Destruction.

19 In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. 20 It will be a sign and witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt. When they cry out to the LORD because of their oppressors, he will send them a savior and defender, and he will rescue them.

"In that day the Egyptians shall be like women", "in that day there will be an altar to the LORD", this contradicts your scenario that there was no Egyptians around when the GP was built.

So, have you got any references to the GP in the Bible?

Brian.


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 Message 64 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-28-2007 5:18 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 70 of 77 (387619)
03-01-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by PaulK
02-28-2007 6:15 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
I have produced counter examples.

Negative.

You have "produced" unsupported assertions. Why don't you just SHOW me and back up those unsupported assertions?

My explanation is that it is not true.

I know you disagree; can you tell us why?

Why does the GP have an extensive passage system that includes ascending passages unlike ALL others which have NONE?

You should stick to your previous explanation, which was the GP was the product of the concerted effort of all of Egypt's resources; unlike the others which did not get the same national attention.

This is a very poor explanation since the 2nd and 3rd pyramids are of commensurate size but have no passage system to speak of.

Ray


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 Message 67 by PaulK, posted 02-28-2007 6:15 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 71 of 77 (387621)
03-01-2007 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Brian
03-01-2007 1:46 PM


Re: couple of qs
I know, but the context of the chapter clearly foretells of a future event.

....which I answered. Again, the future event is the age of the Saviour, the age of grace, and the Church age; ***sometime*** during these times mankind will recognize the object described and see that God wrote the foundational Biblical message in stone before the Scriptures were written.

The passage system in the GP irrefutably corresponds to the central message of the Bible; it also confirms the date of the Exodus to have occurred 1453 BC. The star alignment is refutation proof.

This hasn't happened yet.

I have agreed.

Christ the Saviour had not yet come when Isaiah spoke the words at issue.

You have also completely evaded the evidence in its totality. As for your argument in italics; the earliest uncial mss have no spacing, paragraphing or punctuation. I have seen the Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus, which means context can change from one verse to the other. Therefore, there is no context issue for verses 19 and 20; they are free-standing.

You can have the last word.

Also, how come no other pyramid is free of writing except the GP?

Ray

Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 72 of 77 (387624)
03-01-2007 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Cold Foreign Object
03-01-2007 3:27 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
quote:

You have "produced" unsupported assertions. Why don't you just SHOW me and back up those unsupported assertions?

False, I provided a link, just like you did. I did show you.

quote:

Why does the GP have an extensive passage system that includes ascending passages unlike ALL others which have NONE?

You should stick to your previous explanation, which was the GP was the product of the concerted effort of all of Egypt's resources; unlike the others which did not get the same national attention.


My explanation for the more complex passage system is that it was a major project, building on past experience - and likely an over-ambitious one. My explanation for the presence of an ascending passage is that there is nothing that special about it - it is not unique.

So far you have mustered no serious challenge to either point.


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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2287 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 73 of 77 (387625)
03-01-2007 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Dr Adequate
03-01-2007 12:13 AM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
It was built around the same time as the others

There is much evidence which says the GP was built by Enoch circa 10,000 BC.

on the same site, from the same materials, taken from the same quarries, using the same techniques, in the same shape, with the same orientation, but it has ascending passages so it must have been built by a completely different set of people.

Then how come no other pyramid has ascending passages or any passage system except the GP?

How come the GP has no writings within unlike all other pyramids?

No mummy was ever discovred; the coffer had no lid; no treasure room; and three granite plugs block the first ascending passage; and both the Queen's Chamber and Kings Chamber have AIR VENTS; and when clean and clear the temperature in the King's Chamber remains at 68 degrees - the optimal temperature for man to exist in.

Ray


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2007 12:13 AM Dr Adequate has replied

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 290 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 74 of 77 (387686)
03-01-2007 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Cold Foreign Object
03-01-2007 3:58 PM


Re: Getting Back to the OP Issue
There is much evidence which says the GP was built by Enoch circa 10,000 BC.

During the Upper Paleolithic? That's funny, I could have sworn that a few pages ago someone was telling us that "evolution" said that the Great Pyramid was built by "cavemen".

Oh look, it was you, post #29.

You can't have "cave men" and their immediate relatives suddenly building a world wonder as evolution says.

And now you want to date the building of the G.P. 7500 years earlier than scientists say it was built.

You asked, indeed:

How did persons in 12,000 to 2,500 BC, that is persons who just emerged from the so called Stone Age build the Seventh Wonder of the World?

And now you want to put the building of the G.P. in the Stone Age?

I find this a little strange.

Then how come no other pyramid has ascending passages or any passage system except the GP? No mummy was ever discovered; the coffer had no lid; no treasure room; and three granite plugs block the first ascending passage; and both the Queen's Chamber and Kings Chamber have AIR VENTS ...

The Pyramid of Khafre has a passage system. No mummy was ever found in the Pyramid of Khafre. All the treasure had been removed from the Pyramid of Khafre. Also, if you look at the pictures, you will see that Khafre's tomb was not covered with writing, as you have claimed in earlier posts was the case, but with much simpler designs.

And, could I remind you, they are built on the same site out of the same materials in the same shape.

The trivial differences between them are smaller than the differences by which I could "prove" that my house was built by a different civilization from my neighbor's.

... and when clean and clear the temperature in the King's Chamber remains at 68 degrees - the optimal temperature for man to exist in.

As determined how?

What temperature is it inside the Pyramid of Khafre?


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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 75 of 77 (387839)
03-03-2007 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Cold Foreign Object
03-01-2007 3:58 PM


Getting Back to the OP Issue - the real issue.
How come the GP has no writings within unlike all other pyramids?

Now we know that Herepton is just funning us when he suggests that the GP was the Pillar of Enoch or was built by the Sethians (Enoch's sons and their descendants), because it is known of these pillars that:

"Upon these pillars Enoch is said to have inscribed the antediluvian arts and sciences, and laws of the universe."

So, if the GP is the 'Pillar of Enoch' it would be covered with those inscriptions. You guys that thought that Ray was just some full of crap crackpot just didn't pick up on the joke. Ray, you and I are birds of a feather. Rock on!

Regards, AnInGe.


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