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Author Topic:   A Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis
AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 300 (326167)
06-25-2006 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by John A. Davison
05-29-2006 11:22 AM


Happy Birthday
Best wishes for your Birthday, John.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by John A. Davison, posted 05-29-2006 11:22 AM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
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John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 227 of 300 (326172)
06-25-2006 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by AdminNWR
06-25-2006 4:44 PM


Re: Happy Birthday
Thank you. It is one of the virtues of not insisting on anonymity. Others should do the same!


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by AdminNWR, posted 06-25-2006 4:44 PM AdminNWR has taken no action

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 228 of 300 (326524)
06-26-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Syamsu
06-24-2006 6:48 PM


Re: That is a cheap shot
So it may well be that in some time the Darwinist discipline simply co-opts your postion to such a large extent, so to make your weak reference to God on the side of your theory meaningless.

Hi Sy:

The evolutionists set themselves up in place of God and speak for nature and assert ex nihilo (random mutation) is the creator of diversity. Thats all evolution is: spontaneous generation based on their educational credentials. Creationists have a source for ex nihilo and they don't.

I have asked Davison repeatedly (to no avail) as to what or who determines or perscribes his theory. Can you answer for him ?

Ray Martinez


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by John A. Davison, posted 06-26-2006 5:09 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 229 of 300 (326535)
06-26-2006 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Cold Foreign Object
06-26-2006 4:43 PM


Re: That is a cheap shot
I have already answered that question. I said the source was one or more intelligences far beyond our power to comprehend. Anything more than that is pure mysticism. There is absolutely no reason to postulate a personal intervening God and plenty of reason not to as that seems to be the source of the idiotic debate that continues to rage exactly as Einstein proclaimed long ago. It is actually much worse now than it was then as any one can see and as this forum testifies.

"The main source of the present-day conflicts between the spheres of religion and science lies in the concept of a personal God."
The New Quotable Einstein, page 203


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-26-2006 4:43 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Syamsu, posted 06-27-2006 8:59 AM John A. Davison has replied
 Message 237 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-27-2006 3:34 PM John A. Davison has replied

Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4829 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 230 of 300 (326756)
06-27-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by John A. Davison
06-26-2006 5:09 PM


Re: That is a cheap shot
Well Einstein was obviously just engaging some bigotry of his own. If or not Jesus is God, may be concluded by relating your spirit to the spirit of Jesus by investigating the choices Jesus made. For Einstein, or you to say that science disproves Jesus is God, that there is no personal God such as Jesus, is merely pseudoscience.

I for one, do not believe that Jesus is God, but I don't pretend that science forces me to this conclusion.

The impersonal vs personal is just an issue that rages within religion, not between science and religion. As before, and as is quite plain from your own writing, the issue that rages between science and religion is one of behaviour by law vs free behaviour. Science has yet to fully acknowledge any free behaviour at all, be it of God, or of man, or anything.

regards,
Mohammad Nur Syamsu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by John A. Davison, posted 06-26-2006 5:09 PM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Wounded King, posted 06-27-2006 11:46 AM Syamsu has taken no action
 Message 232 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2006 11:52 AM Syamsu has replied

Wounded King
Member (Idle past 3333 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 231 of 300 (326802)
06-27-2006 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Syamsu
06-27-2006 8:59 AM


diammettrically opposed anti-darwinian approaches
I suppose that your form of creationism with its emphasis on a supernatural force influencing the direction of contingent events, and the fundamental assumption that there were alternative outcomes, is essentially the antithesis of John's prescribed highly deterministic theory where there is no room for contingency or alternatives.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Syamsu, posted 06-27-2006 8:59 AM Syamsu has taken no action

John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 232 of 300 (326805)
06-27-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Syamsu
06-27-2006 8:59 AM


Re: That is a cheap shot
Just what has Jesus got to do with the Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis? Isn't anyone going to address the substance of this thread?


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Syamsu, posted 06-27-2006 8:59 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Syamsu, posted 06-27-2006 1:04 PM John A. Davison has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12793
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 233 of 300 (326806)
06-27-2006 12:01 PM


Topic Drift Alert
The original intention for the Showcase forum was that there be little to no moderation except for keeping discussion on-topic. I agree with John that this topic seems to be drifting.

Perhaps this thread needs a fresh recruit!


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 234 of 300 (326822)
06-27-2006 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Admin
06-27-2006 12:01 PM


Re: Topic Drift Alert
Amen.


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

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Syamsu 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4829 days)
Posts: 1914
From: amsterdam
Joined: 05-19-2002


Message 235 of 300 (326823)
06-27-2006 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by John A. Davison
06-27-2006 11:52 AM


Re: That is a cheap shot
Perhaps you want to look into Dawkinis "work" on what he calls "evolvability", which is basically also predetermination of evolution by genetics.

regards,
Mohammad Nur Syamsu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2006 11:52 AM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2006 3:20 PM Syamsu has taken no action

John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 236 of 300 (326869)
06-27-2006 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Syamsu
06-27-2006 1:04 PM


Re: That is a cheap shot
Perhaps I don't. I have no respect for Dawkins whatsoever. He is the quintessential atheist. He lives in a fantasy world entirely of his own construction . Each of his books is more bizarre than its predecessor. He is now into "weaving rainbows" if you can imagine such a fantasy. He has contributed absolutely nothing to our understanding of evolution. Quite the contrary, along with Ernst Mayr and Stephen J. Gould he has effectively greatly inhibited that understandng. I regard him as the last of the "Three Stooges" of evolutionary dogma.

He has most recently erected Albert Einstein as his hero, apparently oblivious to what Einstein thought of the likes of him.

"Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source...They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres."
The New Quotable Einstein, page 204.

Why don't you do as I have suggested and invite Dawkins to appear here? I can assure you that I would dispose of him in short order and do it in his own words. Does anyone anywhere really believe in a Blind Watchmaker gamely climbing Mount Improbable or even in a Selfish Gene? Let them speak here and now. I need a good laugh. Dawkins is careful to hand pick fellow Darwinians like poor Ken Miller to pick on and does it not on the basis of science but on Miller's Christian beliefs! The man is a monumental joke. Like all lightweight ideologues he suffers from "limelight disease." William Dembski is his counterpart on the other side of the ideological fence. They are both nothing but cult-generating insecure publicity hounds. It is a scandal if you ask me. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Dawkins were to do himself in. That is what another charlatan by the name of Paul Kammerer did once he was revealed.

"We seek and offer ourselves to be gulled."
Montaigne

Not this old physiologist Michel!

"Darwinians of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your natural selection."
after Karl Marx

It is hard to believe isn't it?


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Syamsu, posted 06-27-2006 1:04 PM Syamsu has taken no action

Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2286 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 237 of 300 (326877)
06-27-2006 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by John A. Davison
06-26-2006 5:09 PM


Meet the New Boss Same as the Old Boss
Prof. Davison writes:

I have already answered that question. I said the source was one or more intelligences far beyond our power to comprehend.

You are consistently flip-flopping.

I can produce quotes FROM THIS thread where you speak against God and for God. Your most recent quotes are clearly against God WHILE re-defining the deity other than understood meaning. I see no reason to paste these quotes AGAIN and AGAIN as you ignore them AGAIN and AGAIN.

Prof. Davison writes:

I said the source was one or more intelligences far beyond our power to comprehend.

How is it that these "intelligences" can produce the wonder of nature which baffles our most intelligent minds (who can speak) but the same in unable ?

How can "intelligences" produce bat sonar and eyes and voice boxes but the same cannot speak itself ?

What is your source for information about "God" or these "intelligences" ?

You are literally no different than Stanford anthropologist Jeremy Narby, who has documented the "intelligences" exhibited in nature, yet, being the atheist-Darwinist that he is, asserts contrary to his research and concludes nature does not show evidence of God.

Dawkins, "Blind Watchmaker", (1986) LAST paragraph in the book:

Context: Large series of ultra-small cumulative steps of synthesis defined natural selection negates all astronomical improbabilities and vast geological time to accomplish the same.

"It is the contention of the Darwinian world-view that both of these provisos are met, and that slow, gradual, cumulative natural selection is the ultimate explanation of our existence. If there are versions of the evolution theory that deny slow gradualism, and deny the central role of natural selection, they may be true in particular cases. But they cannot be the whole truth, for they deny the very heart of the evolution theory, which gives it the power to dissolve astronomical improbabilities and explain prodigies of apparent miracle."

Atheist needs "give it that power"; not objective scientific facts available for everyone to confirm.

Those "prodigies of apparent miracle" were meticulously documented by Dawkins (bat sonar, eye, electric fish). EvC member EZ Science admitted he was completely ignorant to these BASIC CLAIMS of evolutionary theory....a complete nobody hiding behind anonymity dismissing Mr. Evolution Professor Richard Dawkins.

Natural Selection is TOUTED as producing the (admitted) miraculous organisms of nature = atheists stealing the patent rights from God. The same murdered hundreds of millions persons in Communist Russia, China, and Southeast Asia so I guess persons capable of genocide are capable of stealing quite easily. ToE was instantly accepted by Russia and made its quickest advances in this nation after the death of Darwin. We know the Third Reich were wholly Darwinists as they, believing we are advanced apes, selected the Jewish race to be selected out of existence. Hitler (like TEists) also claimed to be a Christian.

Prof. Davison:

You have chastised atheist-Darwinism with just cause. Their idiotic atheism packaged as science proves if a person accepts the same they are suffering a penalty from God for denying Him Creator credit. TEists comfort themselves that they are Christians. Judas thought the same and so did creationist Pharisees, they THOUGHT they were right with God when in fact, we know, the Bible says, they were the enemies of Christ.

Your constant condemnation of atheist-Darwinism is understood and explained in the following light:

Dr. Gene Scott (Ph.D. Philosophy and Religion; Ph.D. minors in Geography, Comparitive Religion and Psychology)

"We overtly condemn that which we are covertly guilty of the most."

You are guilty Prof. Davison of the exact same thing that you condemn the Darwinists for. They take God's place and claim their intellect produced the miracles of creation and you do the exact same. You are a common atheist hiding behind an agnostic label. There is no difference between an agnostic and an atheist. We know this is true since their arguments and beliefs match each other. At least declared atheists are honest unlike agnostic atheists like yourself - total fucking liars.

Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical Paulinist

Edited by Herepton, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by John A. Davison, posted 06-26-2006 5:09 PM John A. Davison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2006 4:26 PM Cold Foreign Object has taken no action
 Message 239 by Admin, posted 06-27-2006 8:07 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 238 of 300 (326901)
06-27-2006 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Cold Foreign Object
06-27-2006 3:34 PM


Re: Meet the New Boss Same as the Old Boss
I request that Ray Martinez be banned from any further participation based on his terminal comment directed toward me.


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-27-2006 3:34 PM Cold Foreign Object has taken no action

Admin
Director
Posts: 12793
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 239 of 300 (326941)
06-27-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Cold Foreign Object
06-27-2006 3:34 PM


Re: Meet the New Boss Same as the Old Boss
Hi Ray,

Just as you have say over who participates in your thread, John has say over who participates in his.

Perhaps you should start another thread so you have two going at the same time. There's nothing that restricts the number of threads you have here in Showcase. Maybe the pyramid topic still interests you.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-27-2006 3:34 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by John A. Davison, posted 06-27-2006 9:11 PM Admin has replied
 Message 241 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 06-27-2006 11:16 PM Admin has taken no action

John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 240 of 300 (326963)
06-27-2006 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Admin
06-27-2006 8:07 PM


Re: Meet the New Boss Same as the Old Boss
It is not that I choose who will participate because I am prepared to deal with anyone who can remain reasonably civil. I am not prepared to absorb abuse from anyone anymore. That has been the story of my life on internet forums as anyone who is familiar with my history well knows. I am not even in good standing right here at EvC and probably never will be. Ray got abusive and I won't respond to him or anyone else who has to stoop to such methods. I didn't select those who post on this thread. Someone else did. I presume it was the posters themselves.


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Admin, posted 06-27-2006 8:07 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Admin, posted 06-28-2006 7:48 AM John A. Davison has replied

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