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Author Topic:   A Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis
John A. Davison 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 256 of 300 (328243)
07-02-2006 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by AdminAsgara
07-02-2006 9:06 AM


Re: Recruiting Debaters
I didn't address my post to the Queen of the Universe whoever that really is.

Whoever you are you are mistaken. When I try to call up Intelligent Design or Biological Evolution I am immediately greeted with "You do not have permission to access this forum." I recommend that you at EvC get together with one another and find out who is in charge because someone is making it quite impossible for me to access anything at EvC except this one thread. Much more important is why? I already know the answer to that one.

If no one chooses to engage me that is fine also as it reveals the total bankruptcy of the Darwinian chance-happy, mutation-intoxicated atheist ideology that pervades this forum from top to bottom as it always has. The fact remains that I can view nothing at EvC except "showcase." Got that? Don't try to tell me otherwise as it won't wash. Someone is lying in their teeth.

Now you either restore me with full posting and viewing capacities anywhere I choose at EvC or I am out of here with an announcement to the world of cyberdom about this forum and its shabbly degenerate tactics.

You have until 12 noon EST. After that if my conditions are not met all further communication with me will be via email or at my blog.

As for "showcase" -

VENI, VIDI, VICI.
Julius Caesar


"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by AdminAsgara, posted 07-02-2006 9:06 AM AdminAsgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by AdminAsgara, posted 07-02-2006 10:32 AM John A. Davison has replied
 Message 259 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2006 11:14 AM John A. Davison has replied
 Message 260 by nwr, posted 07-02-2006 11:44 AM John A. Davison has replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 1538 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 257 of 300 (328244)
07-02-2006 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by John A. Davison
07-02-2006 10:22 AM


Re: Recruiting Debaters
Your settings on this board are no different than they have been since you returned. The only possibility that involves us is that the boss is working with code and this is a temporary sideeffect.

Try clearing your cache and deleting your cookies. Then log in again.

Quit accusing everyone of ulterior motives and quit threatening with leaving. That is your choice.


AdminAsgara Queen of the Universe

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
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    http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 256 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 10:22 AM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 258 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 10:34 AM AdminAsgara has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 258 of 300 (328245)
    07-02-2006 10:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 257 by AdminAsgara
    07-02-2006 10:32 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    Sorry but the choice is yours not mine. You have 90 minutes.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 257 by AdminAsgara, posted 07-02-2006 10:32 AM AdminAsgara has taken no action

    Replies to this message:
     Message 261 by Admin, posted 07-02-2006 11:45 AM John A. Davison has replied

    Adminnemooseus
    Administrator
    Posts: 3958
    Joined: 09-26-2002
    Member Rating: 5.2


    Message 259 of 300 (328251)
    07-02-2006 11:14 AM
    Reply to: Message 256 by John A. Davison
    07-02-2006 10:22 AM


    JAD's read only access to forums, or lack there of
    When I try to call up Intelligent Design or Biological Evolution I am immediately greeted with "You do not have permission to access this forum."

    The intents of the settings are that you and everyone else (even the unregistered) should have full reading access to those and every other public forum (everything except the "Private Administration Forum", which is only available to admins). If you do not have at least "read only" access to all such forums, then something is not working as it is intended.

    You are restricted from posting in many forums, but this should not effect the read access.

    In part, you have a legitimate complaint, and you have apparently pointed out a bug in the forum's software. A short term fix for you, would be for you to log out. As a logged out member you should have read only access to all public forums. You can log back in to do any message postings.

    Adminnemooseus


    New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

    Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
    General discussion of moderation procedures
    Thread Reopen Requests
    Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

    Other useful links:

    Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC, Assistance w/ Forum Formatting, Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics, Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 256 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 10:22 AM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 262 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 2:25 PM Adminnemooseus has taken no action

    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5971
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 3.4


    Message 260 of 300 (328259)
    07-02-2006 11:44 AM
    Reply to: Message 256 by John A. Davison
    07-02-2006 10:22 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    If no one chooses to engage me that is fine also as it reveals the total bankruptcy of the Darwinian chance-happy, mutation-intoxicated atheist ideology that pervades this forum from top to bottom as it always has.

    I will note that I attempted to engage you in Message 247. Your response, at Message 248, appeared to me to be an evasion. I do not expect to make further posts in this forum.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 256 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 10:22 AM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 265 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 12:59 PM nwr has replied

    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12788
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002
    Member Rating: 2.1


    Message 261 of 300 (328260)
    07-02-2006 11:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 258 by John A. Davison
    07-02-2006 10:34 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    Problem is fixed.


    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 258 by John A. Davison, posted 07-02-2006 10:34 AM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 263 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 11:17 AM Admin has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 262 of 300 (328284)
    07-02-2006 2:25 PM
    Reply to: Message 259 by Adminnemooseus
    07-02-2006 11:14 AM


    Re: JAD's read only access to forums, or lack there of
    I am denied participation everywhere at EvC except "showcase." That is transparently discriminatory and totally unacceptable to me. The problem will be "fixed" as you put it when I am treated fairly, without bias or prejudice and not a moment before. Those are my non-negotiable terms. If they cannot be met it will reflect on EvC and certainly not on me. I have had enough of forums that first isolate me, then treat me with contempt and finally ban me. EvC, like Panda's Thumb has done all three in the past and in exactly same order. EvC had "Boot Camnp", Panda's Thumb had "The Bathroom Wall." The only difference is that EvC decided for some strange reason to invite me back to what you call "showcase" which I take to be just another version of "Boot Camp." Apparently you enjoy trying to humiliate your adversaries a lot. You are only humiliating yourself with such tactics just as Ellsbery has at Panda's Thumb, P.Z. Meyers has at Pharyngula and Dembski has at Uncommon Descent.

    The choice remains yours and yours alone. It always was. You are simply repeating your past.

    "The one thing we learn from history is that we do not learn from history."

    I have learned a great deal about the machinations of internet forums and I have a very good memory. I also have had enough of the methods such forums practice with those with whom they have ideological differences. Your forum will be no exception unless you mend your ways.

    In view of your confession I will extend my deadline until 6 PM EST. Do what you have to do. I always do.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 259 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2006 11:14 AM Adminnemooseus has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 263 of 300 (328727)
    07-04-2006 11:17 AM
    Reply to: Message 261 by Admin
    07-02-2006 11:45 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    Since you have not yet banned me (as you most certainly eventually will) and since I have nothing further to offer you or you to offer me, I will take this golden opportunity to let others speak for me.

    "Science commits suicide when she adopts a creed."
    Thomas Henry Huxley

    "Of the few innocent pleasures left to men past middle life - the jammimg common-sense down the throats of fools is perhaps the keenest."
    ibid

    "The laws of the organic world are the same, WHETHER WE ARE DEALING WITH WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INDIVIDUAL (ontogeny) OR THAT OF A PALEONTOLOGICAL SERIES (phylogeny). Neither in the one nor in the other is there room for chance."
    Leo Berg, Nomogenesis, page 134, his emphasis.

    There is plenty more if you want more so I recommend you ban me once again if you intend to silence me. That is the only means you now have left. Do what you have to do. I always have.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 261 by Admin, posted 07-02-2006 11:45 AM Admin has taken no action

    Replies to this message:
     Message 264 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 11:20 AM John A. Davison has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 264 of 300 (328728)
    07-04-2006 11:20 AM
    Reply to: Message 263 by John A. Davison
    07-04-2006 11:17 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    Excuse my duplication of WITH.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 263 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 11:17 AM John A. Davison has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 265 of 300 (328749)
    07-04-2006 12:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 260 by nwr
    07-02-2006 11:44 AM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    In case you didn't know it, I have no respect for anonymous posters. They don't exist.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 260 by nwr, posted 07-02-2006 11:44 AM nwr has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 266 by nwr, posted 07-04-2006 1:13 PM John A. Davison has replied

    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5971
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 3.4


    Message 266 of 300 (328755)
    07-04-2006 1:13 PM
    Reply to: Message 265 by John A. Davison
    07-04-2006 12:59 PM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    In case you didn't know it, I have no respect for anonymous posters.

    That seem irrelevant, unless you think the ad hominem is a valid form of argument.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 265 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 12:59 PM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 267 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 1:32 PM nwr has taken no action

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 267 of 300 (328761)
    07-04-2006 1:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 266 by nwr
    07-04-2006 1:13 PM


    Re: Recruiting Debaters
    ad hominem? That is quite impossible when a coward such as yourself refuses to disclose his identity. Besides I am through interacting with you people. I am just taking advantage of the fact that you haven't banned me yet. You will. That is your only choice now as in the past. Ideologues have no other option.

    In the meantime consider this from one my distinguished sources.

    "Any system that purports to account for evolution must invoke a mechanism not mutational and aleatory."
    Pierre Grasse, Evolution of Living Organisms, page 234. The entire sentence is in italics.

    That is precisely what the PEH does.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 266 by nwr, posted 07-04-2006 1:13 PM nwr has taken no action

    Admin
    Director
    Posts: 12788
    From: EvC Forum
    Joined: 06-14-2002
    Member Rating: 2.1


    Message 268 of 300 (328816)
    07-04-2006 4:43 PM


    Forum Guidelines Warning
    The intention is that there be little to no moderation in the Showcase forum, with the exception of staying on-topic. Participants in this thread should be sure their messages are on topic before posting them. Thanks!


    --Percy
    EvC Forum Director

    randman 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 4135 days)
    Posts: 6367
    Joined: 05-26-2005


    Message 269 of 300 (328820)
    07-04-2006 5:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 250 by John A. Davison
    07-01-2006 5:01 PM


    basing theory on facts
    The fossil record is the final arbiter of any mechanism for evolution. There is absolutely nothing in it to suggest the gradual generation of any of the taxa and very litte that even indicates reproductive continuity.

    This is, of course, correct as so many have tried in vain to point out to mainstream evos. It's very curious that absolutely no one from that perspective dares even try to challenge you on that.

    But maybe there is some benefit to thinking this though a little more....First, we can see gradualistic evolution of major taxa simply did not and does not occur, period.

    Second, whether or not you are right on the inherent deficiencies of mutations as an agent for organic evolution, it is true that clearly small mutations adding up is absolutely not what we see in the fossil record, not even close to it.

    So ruling out mainstream evo models, your model would require, for sexually reproducing species, to produce their new species offspring in at least pairs. In other words, it must coincide with others having offspring of the same type so they can mate.

    What do you think is the trigger for the mechanism?

    Moreover, if this latent ability was encoded into species, might we at least see some traces of this still working. For example, if we ever see a global change in a small way with human reproduction, such as earlier puberty or whatever, we would normally look for a virus or bacteria, a change in diet, or other environmental factors, but perhaps there is something still programmed into humanity that triggers "prescribed changes."

    Imo, there should be some more work done thinking on how to test for aspects of this prescribed mechanism. Sometimes scientists think something can never fully be tested (aspects of QM were like that), and yet someone figures out a way to do it.

    Personally, the hopeful monster thing seems a stretch, but then again, if organic evolution is to be preserved as a working theory, it is going to take something like the hopeful monster idea to make it work. It is more plausible if taken as something deliberately programmed in (a form of ID) because one can imagine more easily something strange like this occuring as part of some intelligent intent, but the idea, chance alone could explain it is prepostrous, as you rightly point out.

    Edited by randman, : edited pathogen out as that is not the best term there


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 250 by John A. Davison, posted 07-01-2006 5:01 PM John A. Davison has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 270 by John A. Davison, posted 07-04-2006 6:14 PM randman has replied

    John A. Davison 
    Inactive Suspended Member


    Message 270 of 300 (328833)
    07-04-2006 6:14 PM
    Reply to: Message 269 by randman
    07-04-2006 5:14 PM


    Re: basing theory on facts
    What part of "I am no longer responding here" do you not understand?

    I am through with EvC and all those who post here. I am waiting for it to do the only think it ever was able to do which is to stifle the opposition with bannishment. It is what I have learned to expect from forums like Panda's Thumb, Phrayngula, Ucommon Descent and of course EvC.

    Until it does and I am sure it will, here is another one for you all to digest. I would be a fool not to get in these licks before the inevitable transpires.

    "Microevolution does not lead beyond the confines of the species and the typical products of microevolution, the geographic races, are not incipient species. There is no such category as incipient species. Species and the higher categories originate in single macroevolutionary steps as completely new genetic systems. The genetical process which is involved consists of a repatterning of the chromosomes, which results in a new genetic system. The theory of the genes and of the accumulation of micromutants by selection has to be ruled out of this picture.
    Richard B. Goldschmidt, The Material Basis of Evolution, page 396

    ergo: The Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis. The only qualification I would add is that he should have used the past tense as my signature makes very plain.

    Have you had enough yet or do you want some more? I really don't care one way or the other. It is entirely up to EvC.


    "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 269 by randman, posted 07-04-2006 5:14 PM randman has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 272 by Wounded King, posted 07-04-2006 6:38 PM John A. Davison has taken no action
     Message 273 by randman, posted 07-04-2006 7:17 PM John A. Davison has taken no action

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