Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,821 Year: 3,078/9,624 Month: 923/1,588 Week: 106/223 Day: 4/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is creationism science?
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 114 (371149)
12-20-2006 12:47 PM


I basically agree with Confidence.
The 1st Firmament or Heaven (the world of Adam thru Noah) was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 It was formed in the midst or middle of the Water, and Water was above and below it.
IOW, the 1st Heaven (universe), was surrounded by water. It was later destroyed, totally and completely, by that same Water, when the "windows of heaven were opened. Gen. 7:11
Our Heaven or Universe was made of dust on the 3rd Day, Gen 2:4-5 The Big Bang happened on the 3rd Day, the same Day Jesus made our Heaven or Kosmos, and also the 3rd Heaven. ll Corinthians 12:2 tells us of the Apostle Paul being taken to the 3rd Heaven -- where Jesus is -- preparing a place for us to live.
John 14
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. v2 IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE ARE MANY MANSIONS: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you
God Bless

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 114 (371150)
12-20-2006 12:52 PM


Genesis & Science
Here's how I see it....
In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The 3 basic elements necessary for all physical form are shown... AIR, DUST AND WATER. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements.
The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.
This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.
God Bless

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by platypus, posted 12-20-2006 1:05 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 29 by iceage, posted 12-20-2006 1:52 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 114 (371167)
12-20-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by platypus
12-20-2006 1:05 PM


Re: Genesis & Science
Actually, I was disagreeing with your nonesense which you seem not to notice?
Here's why....
1) Science agrees that the 3 basic elements are necessary (Air, Dust & Water) for a physical form. And you disagree with science?
2) The Bible makes a lot of testable scientific citings & predictions - contrary to your unfounded OPINION.
Do you want me to cite you one?
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by platypus, posted 12-20-2006 1:05 PM platypus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by iceage, posted 12-20-2006 2:01 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 35 by anglagard, posted 12-20-2006 4:20 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 50 by platypus, posted 12-21-2006 12:57 AM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 114 (371173)
12-20-2006 2:21 PM


Genesis and the Big Bang
Albert Einstein, when asked his worse mistake, said that it was assuming that there was another force, besides Gravity, which could explain the Galaxies movements.
Today, Evolutionists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed. These arrogant evols /scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake. They claim that there must be some Undetected, Undiscovered, Mysterious force which is causing the Galaxies to move apart at increasing Speed.
The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the Dust. The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.
At the end of the present 6th Day, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the flawed assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of biblical ignorance. Evolutionist could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would read Scripture.
Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, v25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.. v26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 3:43 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 34 by iceage, posted 12-20-2006 4:14 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 114 (371211)
12-20-2006 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Buzsaw
12-08-2006 6:53 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Buzsaw>>By the time life was created there was dry ground separated from the waters creating oceans, lakes, et al. Then when God works to create life, it always says he worked with dust/earth/ground and not water. <<
Dear Buzsaw,
Scripture says every living creatures that moveth and hath life originated from the waters. Science agrees.
Perhaps, you miss reading these text...
Genesis 1
20 And God said, Let the WATERS bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and EVERY LIVING CREATURE that moveth, which the WATERS BROUGHT FORTH ABUNDANTLY, after their kind, and EVERY winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
God Bless
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2006 6:53 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:30 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 114 (371230)
12-20-2006 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by ringo
12-20-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Dear Ringo,
That is just based on your religious view. Perhaps, I can explain further.....
The Scripture is very clear documenting us that EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT MOVETH AND HATH LIFE (including prehistoric mankind) were brought forth by the waters abundantly on the 5th day.
The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH/Jesus (the Son of God) sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground.
IOW, God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His/their Kinds from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day.
Science agrees that all living creature originated from the waters.
God Bless

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 5:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 6:12 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 12-20-2006 6:28 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 114 (371238)
12-20-2006 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
12-20-2006 6:12 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
Dear Ringo,
I am so sorry for your lack of spiritual understanding of the Scripture. Perhaps, you need to read the Scripture more often -- to get more wisdom and understanding.
Here's what the Scripture says in full context and not what you cited.
Genesis 1
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and EVERY living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and EVERY winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Note: Who do you think God was blessing - when he told THEM (pronoun) to multiply on the 5th day (Gen 1:22)?
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and EVERY thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
I would appreciate if you clarify the things you don't understand first before you embarrassing yourself.
God Bless

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 6:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 7:27 PM 4Pillars has replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 114 (371240)
12-20-2006 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Percy
12-20-2006 6:28 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
Dear Percy,
When Jesus made the creatures, -- including the prehistoric mankind -- He made them in various "kinds", His kinds. No one knows His classification system except He, Himself. Some theorize that the kinds could be creeping, walking, crawling, flying, etc. kinds.
Microevolution or descent with modification happens every time a baby is born. It is God's way of keeping "kinds" within their own "kinds". Micro assures that dogs remain dogs... cats, remain cats...they evolve or change...but within their own "kind".
Example: Cat's Family - A Lion (male) and a Tiger (female) producing a Giant "LIGER". See link (scroll all the way down).
Detailed information on hybridisation in big cats. Includes tigons, ligers, leopons and others.
See, it really amazing how the discovery of Science Today support the TRUTH of the Bible written many centuries ago -- the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) producing GIANT offsprings - Mighty Men of old, men renown - AFTER their union with the Daughters of Men (human), as documented in Genesis 6!!!
This, of course, means that Macro is a Lie and God's Holy Word is the Truth. We did not Evolve our Human Intelligence. We inherited it from Adam, exactly as God told us we did.
Evols, list down your evidence here..
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Percy, posted 12-20-2006 6:28 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ReverendDG, posted 12-20-2006 7:06 PM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 49 by Percy, posted 12-20-2006 9:03 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-22-2006 7:12 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 64 by doctrbill, posted 02-06-2007 1:32 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 114 (371250)
12-20-2006 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ReverendDG
12-20-2006 7:06 PM


Re: Micro-evolution of Prehistoric Mankind & Human
Dear DG,
Genesis 6 does not say that the sons of God were angels. Angels are ministering spirits -- without flesh and bone -- and could not possibly mate with humans, so much so producing giant offsprings. Ridiculous, isn't it?
No wonder Evols get it wrong all the time. Their theory is based on wild imaginations and speculation.
Next Please...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ReverendDG, posted 12-20-2006 7:06 PM ReverendDG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by DrJones*, posted 12-20-2006 7:22 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 114 (371279)
12-20-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
12-20-2006 7:27 PM


Re: Living Creatures from the Waters
RINGO >>>Before your so-called "full context" - two days before and nine verses before - the plants were created, from the earth, not the water. Science says that plants and animals came from the same ancestors, so science and the Bible do not agree<<<
Dear Ringo
I don't know why you insist on demonstrating your biblical ignorance? You speak of things you have NO knowledge of, by your own admission. Please stop embarrassing yourself. I can not stand it ANYMORE!!!
Here, let me reconcile the Scripture for your additional learning.
"Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God (YHWH or Jesus) made the earth and the heavens, (Plural)
The "Day" is the 3rd Day. One can see this because it is the "Day" in which the "Earth" is made. Gen. 1:9-10 confirms that the "Earth" was made on the 3rd Day.
Heavens is Plural and shows that Jesus also made "Heavens", on the 3rd Day. The 1st Heaven was made on the 2nd Day. Gen. 1:6-8 Gen 2 is showing that on the 3rd Day, Jesus made other "Heavens".
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Note: No water yet at this time but look next succeeding verses...
Further confirmation that these verses are speaking of the 3rd Day, BEFORE the plants, and herbs, which were made on the 3rd Day, according to Gen 1:11-12
Why do you suppose Scripture is going into such detail of the events of the 3rd Day?
Gen 2:6 BUT WENT UP A MIST (evaporation) FROM THE EARTH, and WATERED (condensation) the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the MAN whom he had formed.
Gen 2:4-7 is obviously showing us the "Day" when Adam was formed, physically -BEFORE THE PLANT & THE HERBS.
Adam and Eve were later Created, in God's Image spiritually, on the 6th Day. This is the Spiritual Creation of Adam and Eve, at the same time, on the 6th Day. Gen. 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2
I would suggest Ringo that you are fast to judge, but slower to refute the Truth of God, with Scripture.
Edited by 4Pillars, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 12-20-2006 7:27 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by AdminAsgara, posted 12-20-2006 8:29 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 114 (371371)
12-21-2006 9:52 AM


Science by Definition is Phylisophical
I deny that science can explain everything in our universe naturally, the origin of the universe and the origin of life are the 2 biggest examples that science has not been able to explain with any validity.
Oh and I'm not attacking the true science, I'm attacking the opposition’ definition of science which attempts to exclude creationism, when the fact is the opposing parties are just as guilty of the things they have accused creationism so far, like knowing empirical truth apriori.
It is actually IM-possible to separate philosophy from science or the methods of science. That's because the question, "what is science?" is itself a philosophical question.
Try as you might but there is no such thing as an authoritative definition of science or the scientific method. Scientists and philosophers of science until today are in disagreement on it and struggle to define all of its essential attributes. So for evolutionists to claim that creationism is not science simply begs the question.

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 12-21-2006 10:34 AM 4Pillars has replied
 Message 55 by platypus, posted 12-22-2006 2:43 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 57 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-22-2006 6:35 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 59 by Straggler, posted 12-22-2006 4:46 PM 4Pillars has not replied

  
4Pillars
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 114 (371391)
12-21-2006 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
12-21-2006 10:34 AM


Re: Science by Definition is Philosophical
Dear Percy,
Well I'm glad that you agree with me that science can't explain everything. But, obviously your FAITH in science is very deep, you think science can eventually explain everything.
Sorry, but unless science can create a time machine that will allow us to observe events in the past like the beginning of the universe, all you can ever come up with, no matter scientific sounding, is a best GUESS and SPECULATIONS.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 12-21-2006 10:34 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Percy, posted 12-21-2006 12:43 PM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 56 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-22-2006 6:19 AM 4Pillars has not replied
 Message 60 by fallacycop, posted 12-23-2006 8:27 AM 4Pillars has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024