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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Considerations of Christ's Resurrection | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
Negative, you are the one saying some died for an "untruth" The whole point and intent of the evidence I offered says they died telling the truth of what they saw -the risen Christ.
There are NO contradictions in the resurrection passages , if you think there are you are mistaken and need to listen to someone in the know. If you want list one of them and we will debate it. Glad to read your response.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2302 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Willow,
Which account is the truth then? Matt 28 - Mary M. and Mary mother of Jamesangel descended and rolled away the stone and sat on it talked to the two women women ran to tell the disciples Jesus met them as they went Mark 16 - Mary M, Mary mother of James and Salomestone already rolled away inside was young man they ran away and said nothing to anyone JC appeared 1st to Mary M then two more then the 11 Luke 24 - no names listed in beginningstone already rolled away inside were two men they told the 11 lists Mary M, Mary mother of James and Joanna and others who were there Peter went to see for himself Jesus appeared to two, Cleopas and another John 20/21 - still darkMary M stone already rolled away didn't look, ran to tell Simon and the disciple that Jesus loved They went to look and saw no one there Mary M stayed and saw two angels she turned and saw Jesus told the disciples that evening Jesus appeared to the disciples together ------------------Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
(EDIT: Gawdammit, I spend half an hour compiling the contradiction list of doom, and the damn queen beats me too it. )
quote: Mm. How many women came to the tomb? Matthew: 2Mark: 3 Luke: 5 or more John: 1 When did they arrive? Matthew: sunriseMark: sunrise John: still dark out When they arrived, was the tomb open or closed? Matthew: ClosedLuke: Open What did the women see at the tomb? Matthew: One angelMark: A young man Luke: Two men John: Two angels Were the men (or angels, as the case may be) inside the tomb when the women arrived? Matthew: OutsideMark: Inside Luke: Inside John: Inside Did the women go to tell the disciples? Matthew: They immediately ran to tell the disciplesMark: They didn't tell anyone; they were too afraid Luke: They immediately ran to tell the disciples To whom did Jesus first appear after his resurrection? Matthew: The two MarysMark: Only Mary Magdalene Luke: Cleopas and another John: Only Mary Magdalene Did Mary Magdalene recognize Jesus? Matthew: Yes, immediatelyLuke: Jesus didn't appear to her at all; a vision of angels told her he was still alive John: She knew not that it was Jesus Where did Jesus tell his disciples to go after the resurrection? Matthew: GalileeMark: Galilee Luke: Jerusalem Where did Jesus first appear to the disciples after his resurrection? Matthew: On a mountaintop in GalileeMark: In a room in Jerusalem Luke: In a room in Jerusalem John: In a room in Jerusalem How many disciples were present for this meeting? Matthew: 11Mark: 11 Luke: 11 John: 10 So to sum up, the contradictions in the story of the resurrection include who saw it, when they saw it, whether or not there was a big thumping rock in the way when they saw it, who else was there, whether the other people were angels or just dudes, whether these angel/dudes entered the tomb or not, whether or not the people who saw it told anyone, who Jesus first spoke to after being resurrected, whether or not Mary even recognized him, whether or not Mary even saw him, what instructions Jesus gave his disciples upon returning, where the disciples saw him for the first time after his resurrection, and how many of the disciples were there when Jesus appeared. Those last few particularly shady. I mean... people remember where they were when Kennedy was shot, you'd think people would remember where they were when Jesus rose from the grave. Or at least who else was there, and the gist of what Jesus said. [This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 11-25-2003]
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
Strangly enough, almost all the participents, including the originator, seem oblivious to the title of this topic.
Closing it down. Adminnemooseus ------------------Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to Change in Moderation? or too fast closure of threads
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
quote: Per Dan's above quoted comments at the "Closed Too Fast" topic, I have renamed this topic from "Some Evidence For Creationism" to "Considerations of Christ's Resurrection". Topic re-opened. Cheers,Adminnemooseus ------------------Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to Change in Moderation? or too fast closure of threads [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-26-2003]
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
Why are you arbitrarily re-naming my topic and who is Dan and if he is doing me a favor why am I not happy ?
Towards the end of my topic I said "How does any of this evidence Creationism" and then I proceeded to answer that very question, did you miss it, you must of because your unjustified censorship is negating my entire point. I deserve an answer. W.T.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
What makes you think the originator agrees with you ? I do not. This is so infuriating , did you bother to read what I said in my topic , that part where I say "How does any of this evidence creationism ?" I then proceeded to answer that rhetorical question. My entire point is to evidence creationism which I did. You either missed it or you so disagree with my point/evidence that you have decided to gut my entire master point. I do not understand what is going on here. If Jesus rose then this makes Him God and the creating agent that the Father used to speak the world into existence - this is what I said in my topic in diifferent words so how do you not understand that this is evidence for creationism ? I cant stop you from re-naming my topic but if this stands then this is pure unjustified censorship done under the guise of enforcing some loose subjective rules. W.T.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
I just read over all the posts here WT. If creationism is taken as the idea that science must support the literal word of the bible then I don't see any connection between any of what you posted and that area of discussion.
Could you clear it up? You seem to suggest something like this reasoning:1) If Christ was actually resurrected then everything he says is true. 2) He indirectly supports the old testament. 3) Therefore the old testament must be true too. 4) This makes support for the resurrections support for a literal interpretation of Genesis. Is that the connection?That is so very tenuous that I don't see it really being tied to "creationism" as we know it here.
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Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
Willowtree,
First off, please be calm, relaxed, and Smile. Ok, that's better. This is a moderated discussion board. However, the admins are usually fairly nice, and do minimal moderation. This typically involves shutting down a thread if it strays too far off topic, forcing people to have to open up new - more on-topic threads. Since the discussion had been focusing on Christ's resurrection - not the connection of Christ's resurrection to creationism - it was shut down. However, Dan pointed what the conversation had been mostly about, and the title was consequently changed. Your initial post was not changed at all - only the title. It seems strange that you would consider changing the title to what people were discussing as "censorship". The admins were trying to do you a favor so that they wouldn't have to shut this thread down to force people back on topic; it's a shame that you were offended by it. But they really meant well. Now, your claim is that the penultimate point that you were going for, with all of the discussion of Christ, is that his resurrection is related to creationism. I don't think anyone has followed how you come to this conclusion; your post was a bit too vague for most of us. Please feel free to elaborate as to how this evidences creationism, as opposed to evolution. Remember that creationism and evolution have nothing to do with the formation of this universe - only whether life itself was created as it currently is, or developed from earlier forms of life. It also does not include whether abiogenesis occurred or not (virtually all creationists believe it didn't, but only some evolutionists believe that it did; the others are mostly "theistic evolutionists"). P.S. - You're young, aren't you? 16 or so, perhaps? (please don't take this as an insult if I'm off on this one); P.P.S. - Stay calm, and realize that when other people comment, they're not doing it to insult you, but just to get a calm back-and-forth debate going. It helps educate both sides. If you do, you'll have a lot more fun - you'll learn, and we'll learn too. ------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me." [This message has been edited by Rei, 11-26-2003]
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
I agree with Ned, in message 23.
quote: Dan got your topic reopened. Since you are pushing the issue of why you are not happy, my response must be, that seems to be because you are confused. Adminnemooseus ------------------Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to Change in Moderation? or too fast closure of threads
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:æ:  Suspended Member (Idle past 7184 days) Posts: 423 Joined: |
WILLOWTREE writes:
Sure there is something in between: Christians are mistaken. Mistaken people aren't liars.
Yes, indeed, there are only two options: We christians are liars or we are telling the plain truth - there is nothing in between. WILLOWTREE writes:
Please feel free to clothe your naked assertion with at least a few garments of supporting evidence at anytime.
All of the sources about the Apostles and their deaths are in complete agreement : They all died a horrible martyrs death, and they died ALONE. WILLOWTREE writes:
You will need to demonstrate that at the time of the apostle's death, his life would have been spared by recanting. Otherwise the point is irrelevant. In my time on internet fora, I've presented this challenge to more Christians than I care to count, and to date none has presented any such demonstration. In each case all they had to do was recant and be let go and their fellow apostles would never know they recanted. Of course, you could always try to be the first...
WILLOWTREE writes:
No, it doesn't. Jesus' resurrection could be an elaborate trick played on Christians by Loki, the Norse god of mischeif, in order to make you come to the irrational conclusion you just stated.
Before Jesus died He predicted His death and resurrection which if true validates as true everything else He said.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
How many times now has some bleephole tried to convince me that some favor is being done . Have you graduated college ? And have you ever taken a course on listening or are you an expert in dishing out non sequitors ? When will someone acknowledge that my topic said the following sentence "How does any of this evidence creationism ?" Then I answered that very question. Now it seems the truth is creeping out, that a mob of atheists/darwinists are practicing the fine art of fundementalist scientism censorship. Why can't you dishonest humans posing as open minded intellectuals just say we cannot tolerate what you are arguing. No, instead you intentionally change the shape of the problem to be something that doesn't exist. I do not agree with anything you say and you are no different than Jerry Falwell - you are the bad element in any given good. You have censored out my master point that is not a matter of opinion.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2302 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Willow,
I would appreciate some feedback on my post #17, and Dan's post #18. Also, some feedback on my posts #5 and #7. I have heard stories concerning the deaths of the apostles for many years, but the only information I could actually find on this issue talks of "traditionally" or "it is said" or has too many questions concerning what, when, and where. If anyone has any actual historic references to these events I would appreciate reading them. ------------------Asgara "An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
a mob of atheists/darwinists are practicing the fine art of fundementalist scientism censorship. Quit being an a**. Read the thread. All the messages, including yours, are still here. The only changes have been trivial and cosmetic. Just carry on the conversation.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
No the changes are not trivial , the renaming of my topic decapitates the whole reason I wrote it . This is not a matter of opinion, once again another person is defending the indefensible. Thank you for rationalizing censorship that is completely unwarranted. Now I know that this site is controlled by atheists/darwinists - now I know.
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