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Author Topic:   The best scientific method (Bayesian form of H-D)
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 136 of 273 (79859)
01-21-2004 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua
01-21-2004 3:35 PM


quote:
The God, Jehovah, is extraordinarily malign, so He has written, to those who reject His love.
And this is different from Satan, how?
Buddha loves everyone, except those who cause others pain and suffering. You don't have to worship or love him at all.
Hmmmmm... who is the jealous, malign entity and who is the tolerant, loving entity? Honestly, I am asking you to square this odd vision that Buddha is a demon and God the great guy, when these are the standards they have set forth.
I might add to this that for God, the end of the world is a nightmarish holocaust of everyone that does not bow down to him and his might on earth, while for Buddha there is no true end of the earth, but rather a gradual and hopeful end to suffering for all.
Yeah... having a hard time with your worldview

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-21-2004 3:35 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-24-2004 11:32 AM Silent H has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 137 of 273 (79913)
01-21-2004 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Stephen ben Yeshua
01-21-2004 11:07 AM


Re: Kuhn's dilemma
Hi, Stephen!
You still haven’t offered any scientific evidence for demons. Any approach, including H/D, will lead you astray if you rely upon false or unreliable evidence, which you do, or reason falsely, which you also do.
1. Most species co-exist in their ecosystems with predatory or parasitic, or symbiotic living beings that they cannot sense, that have senses and powers and intelligence they do not have. This is evidence that such biologic relationships are plausible, by the law of succession.
You use this as a springboard to reason thusly: because hosts can be unaware of their parasites, it is reasonable to consider the possibility that Jehovah has a symbiotic relationship with people.
This is as clear an example of false reasoning as I’ve ever seen. There is independent scientific evidence of the existence of parasites, while there is no scientific evidence for Jehovah. We definitely do not conclude the existence of parasites based upon not sensing them. The core of scientific experiment is observation.
This document contains patterns and information that we can detect statistically, that are beyond human capabilities, confirming the validity of its being what it says it is. Ivan Panin's Gematria, Del Washburn's Theomatics, and Doron Witztum's Bible Codes are three independent discoveries of such patterns.
None of these findings have found any standing within the scientific community, and all three are copiously debunked around the web. One would have thought that a person of your scientific perceptiveness would be aware of the failures of these works as science.
3. The Bible says that demons are a part of the human ecosystem. This can be demonstrated, according to the Bible, by a simple test, called titheing, that causes Jehovah to "rebuke the devourer" from the life of the tither.
The Bible is not a scientific source, and there is no scientific evidence whatsoever for this titheing process.
4. The Bible also says that certain prayers will cause good angels to drive away bad angels, or demons. Then, the problems caused by these demons will cease.
Again, the Bible is not a scientific source.
But the God they prayed to has clearly stated that often the desired result is hindered by the presence of demons. Thus, they confirm.
This is as unscientific as everything else, but it also contains a serious flaw in reasoning. Even if God and demons existed, and even if your study were valid, your conclusions do not follow from your evidence. You ignore a wealth of possibilities to focus on your favorite answer: demons.
I am not asking for proof of demons, which was clear anyway as I asked for the scientific, replicable, falsifiable evidence for demons. Which you have yet to do. Or demonstrate any sort of scientific judgment or reasoning powers whatsoever, for that matter.
Come on, Stephen, why don't you just stop wasting everyone's time and admit that you have no scientific evidence for demons?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-21-2004 11:07 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-25-2004 6:36 AM Percy has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 138 of 273 (79946)
01-21-2004 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stephen ben Yeshua
12-26-2003 5:12 PM


And 'H-D' is...
quote:
I was also taught that the best science followed three sets of rules:
1. Hypothetico-deductive method.
2. Strong inference.
3. Bayesian evaluation of posterior plausibility.
I presume that "H-D" was elaborated on, somewhere between message 1 and this one. If not, it should be. Even if it previously was defined, maybe a refresher is due.
Once again, in ENCOURAGE all to fully spell out such terms, and only then use the abreviation later in the message.
Cranky Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 12-26-2003 5:12 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-25-2004 6:43 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 139 of 273 (79972)
01-22-2004 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by NosyNed
01-21-2004 10:59 AM


Re: Online?
Nosyned
I would bet against the use of a nuclear device of a sufficient yield to devestate even one significantly powerful nation,say Germany. The implementation of a single nuclear weapon hardly warrants the term holocaust.The launching of multiple targeted warheads from a distance of at least 300 miles would seem to be the bare minimum in order to carry out an attack with the element of surprise in your favour and even then it is highly doubtful given todays technology of satellite surveillence.

'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.'
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 10:59 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6474 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 140 of 273 (79990)
01-22-2004 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by MrHambre
01-21-2004 12:07 PM


Re: H-D This
Mr.Hambre,
Thank you for setting me straight and pointing out the merits of Fretwellian Non-Methodological Ad Hoc Apologeticism. I was about to publish a paper on my observations of changes in gene expression in cell types infected with various agents as indicators of the physiological impact of said agents on the cell. I stupidly bothered to do experimental work to both observe and verify the phenomenon. Even worse, I did multiple replicates of all experiments involved in order to better support my initial hypothesis that co-factors in pathogenesis can be demonstrated and identified in response to infection.
As you point out, I could have saved all the time thinking about how to test the hypotheses, getting the funding to do the experimental work, doing the experiments, repeating them, and then spending ages interpreting and slogging through the immense data set generated.
I think I will re-write the paper and title it "Demon possession of cells cause pathogenesis". My materials and methods will be 1. The Bible 2. random assertions 3. claiming that my Ph.D. makes everything I say true 4. that a huge omnipotent pink unicorn exists and commands us all....I must run along now to present this new finding to those blind non-scientific skeptics in my department who are sure to disagree since they are atheistic fools and after all are not as smart as I am since I can see a paradigm shift whether I see it or not....Fretwell will certainly be in the acknowledgements of this new paper that is sure to get an audience in such a respected scientific journal as Oui or the Bild Zeitung...I will also acknowledge him in the follow up paper "A new cure for prion pathogenesis: Excorcism"...please excuse me..gotta do the re-writes....Stockholm here I come!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by MrHambre, posted 01-21-2004 12:07 PM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2004 3:57 AM Mammuthus has replied
 Message 210 by truthlover, posted 02-06-2004 8:02 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 141 of 273 (79991)
01-22-2004 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Mammuthus
01-22-2004 3:52 AM


My materials and methods will be
Reminds me...
I took a class in college called "Research and Writing" (offered by the english dept) and the professor was a visiting sociologist they conned into teaching the class. She had us start writing research papers (obviously), and after I had picked my topic (a study of various science fiction predicitions) she had us explain our materials and methods.
Great for science, where those things vary, but literary criticism is a different beast:
Materials: Books.
Method: I'm gonna read 'em!
What else could I say?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Mammuthus, posted 01-22-2004 3:52 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Mammuthus, posted 01-22-2004 7:46 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6474 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 142 of 273 (80010)
01-22-2004 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by crashfrog
01-22-2004 3:57 AM


quote:
What else could I say?
Well, if you were Stephen you would say that you therefore have concrete evidence of God, demons, and any other number of personal beliefs based on those materials and H-D

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2004 3:57 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2004 11:22 AM Mammuthus has replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6474 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 143 of 273 (80020)
01-22-2004 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua
01-21-2004 3:35 PM


Not only spewing hot air..but considers it evidence
quote:
God gives us farts to show us demons leaving, because we cannot sense the demons, and don't know how offensive they are. Otherwise, we let them back in.
I farted in my office before lunch..my colleagues left..thus according to H-D, my colleagues are clearly demons...I will try not to let them back in...though it will be difficult since they have the key.
So Percy...stop harassing poor Stephen for evidence...just eat some saurkraut and you will have all the evidence of demons you need

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-21-2004 3:35 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Asgara, posted 01-22-2004 6:33 PM Mammuthus has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 144 of 273 (80047)
01-22-2004 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Mammuthus
01-22-2004 7:46 AM


Love the new avatar! I remember being awed by the specifmen at La Brea. I need to take the kids there.

Common sense isn't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Mammuthus, posted 01-22-2004 7:46 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Mammuthus, posted 01-23-2004 3:19 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 145 of 273 (80156)
01-22-2004 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua
01-21-2004 3:35 PM


Grey Ghosts and Fiery Demons
"God gives us farts to show us demons leaving," is Stephen Ben Yeshua's take on it.
But I have only "seen" farts on two occasions:
(1) While standing in a very long line on an extremely cold night waiting for the ticket vendor window to open, I heard a long, low rumble of gaseous emission and looked toward the sound to see a vaporous cloud trailing away from a pair of tight jeans. The devil, you say?
(2) While sitting on a very uncomfortable bean bag chair in an extremely poorly decorated college-era domicile, I heard the click of a bic followed by the rattle of a sphincter muscle and looked toward the sounds just in time to see a blow torch flame shooting away from the ass-end of a pair of tight jeans. A Duke Blue Demon, you say?
So that's it for me as far as visual contact with demons I guess.
Peace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-21-2004 3:35 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-24-2004 11:20 AM Abshalom has not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 146 of 273 (80160)
01-22-2004 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Mammuthus
01-22-2004 9:00 AM


Re: Not only spewing hot air..but considers it evidence
Mammuthus, you have made my day. I read this in school today and had to leave the room I was laughing so hard. Just now I was reading it to my daughter and started laughing uncontrollably, tears running down my face, side aching... My daughter thinks I'm losing it.

Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Mammuthus, posted 01-22-2004 9:00 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Mammuthus, posted 01-23-2004 3:21 AM Asgara has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6474 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 147 of 273 (80251)
01-23-2004 3:19 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by NosyNed
01-22-2004 11:22 AM


Hi Ned,
I like this particular skeleton since it was one floor below my old office and I passed by it almost every day. In any case, I was tired of my old avatar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by NosyNed, posted 01-22-2004 11:22 AM NosyNed has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6474 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 148 of 273 (80252)
01-23-2004 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by Asgara
01-22-2004 6:33 PM


Re: Not only spewing hot air..but considers it evidence
Hi Asgara,
Glad to make your day
When I read Stephen's post I could not resist...I noticed he is not responding to me anymore

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Asgara, posted 01-22-2004 6:33 PM Asgara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Abshalom, posted 01-23-2004 2:07 PM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 149 of 273 (80331)
01-23-2004 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Mammuthus
01-23-2004 3:21 AM


Re: Not only spewing hot air..but considers it evidence
It's that horny, heart-shaped aura around your head. Damn, that would make anyone back off!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Mammuthus, posted 01-23-2004 3:21 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 273 (80462)
01-24-2004 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Abshalom
01-22-2004 6:21 PM


Re: Grey Ghosts and Fiery Demons
Hey, Abshalom,
Did you read Carpenter's book on weighing souls? He comments that dis-incorporated spirits have the power to take heat out of air, using the energy to move things. Poltergeists. He notes that, in studies of poltergeists, they either move a lot of little things, or a few big things, per unit time. In short, seem to be moving energy at a constand rate. He suggests that this cooling of air to get energy to do stuff is why "ghosts" in damp places appear white and vaporous. As the cool the air, moisture condenses in clouds around them. Just the opposite, I suppose, of a hot fart in cold air....?
Note, too, re Occham's razor, that humans put some sort of stink into natural gas, so we can know it is there. So, to suppose that God puts farts into demon presences, so we can detect them, invents no new idea.
Cheers,
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Abshalom, posted 01-22-2004 6:21 PM Abshalom has not replied

  
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