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Author Topic:   Ground Rules
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 9 of 68 (513413)
06-28-2009 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by InGodITrust
06-28-2009 2:50 PM


It is a nice visitors center an the park service has done a good job, but the information in the film and on the sign conflicts with the Bible.
So? It probably conflicts with all manner of superstition, myth and fairy tale. (Do you want to require government avoid conflict with all religious beliefs and myths? Or just yours?)
Now the 1st Amendment is interpreted to bar religion being preached by the government in schools and public buildings---and rightly so I guess. But why doesn't it prevent atheism from being preached? Why is atheism the official government position? All the sign and film would have had to add was something like "scientists conclude the age of the formation to be"; or "geologists date the formation"; and it would be better. Instead the we are taught matter-of-factly that " the age is".
1) Atheism is not a religion, in spite of the attempts of creationists to make it the equivalent to one. Nor is atheism the necessary opposite of fundamentalism. Many religions accept the findings of science, including Catholics--the world's single largest denomination.
2) Atheism is not an official government position. Scientific findings, following the scientific method and supported by empirical evidence, is the default position. That's what you get anywhere in the world when you ignore myth, superstition and the rest.
If you want to believe in a young earth you're free to do so, but unless you can provide empirical evidence such that a young earth becomes the dominant scientific finding, you are not free to require government agencies to avoid contradicting your beliefs. And you shouldn't even been thinking of such a thing! Fundamentalism should have absolutely no role in governance--you'd think mankind would have learned that lesson by now, but I guess not.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by InGodITrust, posted 06-28-2009 2:50 PM InGodITrust has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 64 of 68 (514365)
07-06-2009 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Dr Adequate
07-06-2009 9:13 PM


Science=study of empirical evidence
Bluescat, you wrote that it is absurd for me to think that science=atheism. And for the most part it would be absurd. But in some areas of science it would not be such a stretch. How about the origin of life? Isn't that an area with a lot of scientist trying to find how life occurred "naturally", through chemical reactions, rather than being created by a god?
And when scientists found natural causes for rainbows, rather than God making them by magic, was that atheism?
When they maintain, in the face of some people's religious beliefs, that the world was round, is that atheism?
If, tomorrow, someone started a religious sect that said that there was no gravity and God sends angels to make things fall, would a belief in the theory of gravity suddenly become atheistic?
Sorry to have to disappoint some folks, but what we can empirically observe and study is the default position. Tribal myths and superstitions, no matter how well-loved or followed, must stand up to scientific skepticism if they want scientific credibility. So far they have failed the test. "Belief" and "dogma" have no place in science.
When looking for explanations for the natural world, the default position is that which we can observe and study. That which some shaman, somewhere, probably thousands of years ago, said with a Harrison Ford "trust me" grin doesn't meet the criteria.
Until there is some empirical evidence for deities, the default position is what can be observed and studied. "Theology" is the study of a null set.
Or, as Heinlein wrote:
Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there.
Robert A. Heinlein, JOB: A Comedy of Justice

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-06-2009 9:13 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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