Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,421 Year: 3,678/9,624 Month: 549/974 Week: 162/276 Day: 2/34 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why should religion get a free pass?
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 43 of 112 (466587)
05-15-2008 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 5:14 PM


Nutty?
Do you consider a belief to be nutty simply because it lacks empirical evidence?
I only consider them truly nutty, when they have been falsified yet someone still actually believes them.
So you really don't think that someone who genuinely believes that an evil invisible unicorn (for which there is no empirical evidence either for or against due to it's magical and obviously invisible nature) whispers instructions to him and him alone that he must obey to save the planet from certain extinction, is nutty?
Not even if the unicorn in question is telling him he has to skateboard to the centre of the surface of the Earth. Naked.
????
Is this non-empirical unfalsifiable claim not nutty? Not even a little bit?
Your religious convictions aside - Is there any non-religious claim for which you have absoluetly no empirical evidence whatsoever but which you are reasonably certain of being true?
Do you effectively give religion a free pass yourself?
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 5:14 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 6:07 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 45 of 112 (466595)
05-15-2008 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by New Cat's Eye
05-15-2008 6:07 PM


Re: Nutty?
I added this to my last post probably after you had read it. I would be interested in your response.
Straggler asks -
Your religious convictions aside - Is there any non-religious claim for which you have absoluetly no empirical evidence whatsoever but which you are reasonably certain of being true?
Do you effectively give religion a free pass yourself?
CS Writes
If the IPU revealed herself to you in a convincing manner, you would believe in her too. Your belief wouldn't be nutty.
Hmmmm. I cannot imagine a non-empirical and non-verifiable way in which the invisible unicorn could reveal itself convincingly. If I detected it and so did everyone else around me I might start to ask some interesting questions about reality. But if I and only I could hear the unicorn I would definitely think I had lost the plot.
Independent corroboration is the key to objective empirical evidence in this respect.
We're getting into a different meaning for "nuttyness".
But are we? I am not just saying this for the sake of debate. I honestly don't see the difference between this and many religious beliefs in terms of nuttiness!!!
Simply believing, willy-nilly, in things that cannot be falsified could be nutty. But if you have real reasons for believing in them, them being unfalsifiable doesn't make them automatically nutty.
Reasons? What reasons?
Our friend who skateboards naked with his invisible unicorn tormentor believes he has reasons!! He believes that he was put here to save the rest of humanity from the threatened destruction that the invisible unicorn threatens us with. He has felt that he was chosen for this higher purpose since birth. He has always known that he was special in this respect. Even before the invisible unicorn revealed his true calling in life he "knew".
At what point do the "reasons" for nuttiness merge with the nuttiness itself? In fact is it ever posible to distinguish between the two? Really distinguish between the two?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-15-2008 6:07 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 73 of 112 (485850)
10-12-2008 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
10-11-2008 5:31 PM


Re: No Free Pass To Biblical Fundamentalism Necessary
Many religions expect and get a free pass from their advocates. However that is not the case with Biblical fundamentalism
Buz I find myself almost agreeing with you. This comes as quite a shock as I am not sure it has ever happened before.
The Book of Mormon/Mormonism, the Koran/Islam, Zen Buddism, RC Hierarchal Vaticanism, Shintoism, Hinduism etc are some examples coming to mind which expect and get a free pass from their adherents.
I think the belief systems that get, and unjustly demand, the biggest "free pass" in Western society are the the non-fundamentalist and generally 'deemed to be more acceptable' woolly and less well defined forms of Christianity. These and the other main monotheistic religions do get a free pass in the sense that if someone proclaims that they hold a particular view based on faith and belief in God then it is almost expected that such a view is considered all but beyond reproach or criticism because faith should be respected.
Christian fundamentalism however effectively claims that such faith is consistent with, and even to some extent founded upon, physical evidence. I don't think many people have nearly the same qualms about debunking evidence based assertions in the same way that they very well might if confronted with purely theistic views.
I think this is justified and to be expected as evidence based arguments will always be more concrete and well defined than purely logical or philosophical ones.
But for what it is worth I think you are broadly right when you say that Christian fundamentalism does not get the same sort of "free pass" as other religious, less fundamentalist and more philosophical in nature, positions often do.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 10-11-2008 5:31 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024