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Author Topic:   Why should religion get a free pass?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 88 of 112 (648936)
01-19-2012 12:27 PM


New member here: yes, religion does get a free pass.
It's a legacy trait - we unthinkingly allow people to talk about souls and heaven and such as though their existence was undisputed and that it's sane to do so.
In Radio 4's case, there is even a 10 minute slot called 'Thought for the Day' which is a religious piece normally populated by a clergy of some kind and normally pure drivel that has me screaming at the radio.
I'm pretty sure John Humphreys is embarrassed by it but there's no hope of dumping it.
Edited by Tangle, : typo

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by bluegenes, posted 01-19-2012 12:34 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 92 by Larni, posted 01-19-2012 2:32 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 103 of 112 (649050)
01-20-2012 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Larni
01-20-2012 3:25 AM


Larni writes:
I think it must be a bit different over here. Anyone who firmly witnesses their xian beliefs gets funny looks and is given a wide birth.
It's much, much different - although it's changing for the worse here too. Religious beliefs are rarely mentioned in politics here and if they are, people are suspicious of them. Tony Blair's government famously said "we don't do God", then as soon as he was out of office he got himself baptised Catholic - the two faced, lying git.
The US is very different - for a country that tries to keep religion out of its secular institutions, it's all over them. Compared to the UK, the US is obsessed with religion and to a Brit's eyes it's often a quite extreme form of fundamental Christianity.
I'd never a met a fundy until I went to Colorado - they're a frightening bunch. A woman asked me if I was going to go to their church on Sunday, I explained that I was an atheist so no. She took a step backwards grabbed her child and scurried off. Mediaeval behaviour but not, unfortunately, a one off.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 3:25 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Larni, posted 01-20-2012 4:43 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-20-2012 5:29 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 105 of 112 (649054)
01-20-2012 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Larni
01-20-2012 4:43 AM


Re: Recoiling in horror.
I wonder if fundies think that atheist want to ram their lack of belief down the fundies throat or, that atheism is catching and that's why the woman recoiled from you?
The look on her face was a combination of surprise and fear. Sort of "I thought you were such a nice man, now I've just found out that you're an axe murderer"
They genuinely think that you're Satan. I've had one tell me as much.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 108 of 112 (649082)
01-20-2012 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Dr Adequate
01-20-2012 5:29 AM


Dr.Adequate writes:
His government can not "do God" but he can "do God" in his private and personal capacity. He always did, he was a Christian before changing sects, we knew that.
I, and no one I've ever spoken to, knew Blair was a Christian (capital C). We assumed he was a cultural, liberal christian - but we never knew he was a bona fide nut job until the rumours spread about him getting on his knees to pray with Bush before launching into Iraq. The Catholic baptism put the hat on it.
The fact is that he hid his beliefs until they couldn't do him any political damage - that's hypocrisy.
Interesting take on it here:
In a recent interview for Vanity Fair magazine, reporter David Margolick asked Prime Minister Tony Blair about his Christian faith. In a remarkable demonstration of the power of unelected media manipulators, chief spin-doctor Alistair Campbell interrupted the Prime Minister's reply to say 'I'm sorry, we don't do God.'
An editorial in the London Daily Telegraph on Monday 5th May 2003 wryly comments:
One could write a book about everything that this little intervention has to tell us about Mr Blair and his style of government, and about Britain in 2003.
It goes on to ask
What does it tell us about modern Britain, that Mr Blair's chief adviser on his 'image' should think that it would look bad for him to mention God?
A news report in the same issue comments that this (and another incident to which it refers) shows
the extent of the secular grip that Mr Campbell - an avowed atheist - exercises on his boss. He fears that religion is too sensitive an issue for the Prime Minister to speak about.
Of course, viewed at a purely political, tactical level, Campbell may well have been right: if the Prime Minister were to start talking about God or faith, almost anything he said would offend someone. However we cannot help wondering whether many people might prefer our politicians to have the courage of their convictions, even when those convictions may be unpopular. After all why should the Prime Minister not have religious beliefs? And why should the public not know about these beliefs? Presumably they have some effect on his political decisions, and this makes them a matter of public interest.
However, this event is more than a commentary on the triumph of politically correct style over substance. It is also an illustration of one of the key themes picked up in 'Facing the Challenge' - the privatisation of Christian faith, by which your faith is seen as privately engaging, but publicly irrelevant. It is nice that you have found something that will help you get through the day, but you should not expect it to have any influence in the wider public world of business, or education, or law, or politics.
The fact is, of course, that all of us without exception (not least the most rabid atheists and anti-Christians) do expect our private beliefs to influence public discourse. Secularists like Campbell make no bones about the fact that they expect their non-religious agenda to carry the day.
The Telegraph editorial concludes:
How very strange that Mr Campbell is happy to tell the world about his own past struggles against alcoholism and mental breakdown, but shudders to hear his employer mentioning his religion. Mr Blair should trust more in the Almighty, and less in Alistair Campbell.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-20-2012 5:29 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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