What I am saying is that any action taken in the real world has to be the result of stimuli of some kind. Whether that stimuli is a single neuron firing or whether it is the final piece of data in 20 year long investigation, it still has an effect on the things we do, the things we know and the decisions we make based on those data.
This model appears to break down at the quantum level. You are aware of that, yes?
In any case, I can agree that for the most part the natural world influences things in the natural world. That seems to be what you are saying.
You can't really claim that they walk around "without science" though can you? Theye were designed by scientists and would not exist without science.
They could not exist except that humans with scientific aptitude reached a level of material and physical engineering they could construct the robots. This is true. But they could continue to walk regardless if the scientific enterprise sank into the sand tomorrow.
Don't you think the baby learning to take his first steps is able to visualize himself walking? What is that if not a scientific process. Observation --> Create a model --> test the hypothesis --> fall down --> modify the model --> try again.
No, I do not believe this accurately represents a child's attempts to walk. Why not simply ask a person who was injured in a way that forced them to learn to walk again, or use prostheses? They might use visualization but that is different than "knowing" the model of how walking is accomplished. Indeed that level of info would likely reduce one's accomplishments.
Here is an example. I was in martial arts. While we learned skills, there was no scientific study of exactly how a block would deflect a blow. One could do this of course, but it was not necessary to properly block a blow. And thinking about blocking a blow could simply make things worse. Thinking seemed to be death to a martial artist.
The main thing was feeling and allowing one's body to react quickly. You trained muscles and nerves to react in specific ways (whether you knew why or not) until they built up memory. You trained your senses to be more alert than they usually are (not hindered by analysis). Then you let them go.
In many cases it is a state of the body doing exactly what it will and can do. One interesting experiment for you would be to find a young child and see if you can get it to understand the concept of volume. It is known that no matter how you try, the child is incapable of understanding until a certain formation in the brain occurs. Then the child gets it. No amount of scientific investigation is linked to form this understanding, yet much scientific investigation hinges on this understanding.
Hmmmmmm.
But any stimuli (such as the closure of a contact switch) results in an influx of information. Information equates to knowledge and according to definition 1 Knowledge == Science. You just can't get away from it. If you have knowledge of something then that IS, by definition, science.
So a reflex action is considered knowledge and science? In fact, according to this info all creatures on this planet are conducting science at every moment. Don't you see how weak this makes your def?
I might add once again, it even places a bunch of gaybashers or a lynch mob in the category of scientists (social sciences I guess). That is a bit odious.
Our eyes, ears and other senses are detectors. If we can't hear, feel or see it then it might as well not be there anyway.
Are you kidding me? Go get yourself a bar of uranium and set it a few feet from you. You will never see, hear, feel, or smell any of the particles coming off of it that will most certainly kill you. Many people cannot detect the smell of cyanide (which you also cannot see, feel, or hear) until you drop dead.
I don't know how many numbers of tiny things you cannot sense, as well as vast things you cannot sense, that there are in the universe. Maybe somebody has a list. You realize there are whole ranges of EM that you cannot sense and never will directly?
So to sum up Science is exactly equal to Knowledge.
Wrong. Science is the pursuit of knowledge, a form of epistemology devoted to natural phenomena. It may even (at a stretch) refer to the products of that pursuit. Scientific method is the most advanced set of rules we have crafted toward that end.
Here is a link to Science at Wiki.
There are most definitely things that are outside of "The scientific method" but outside of science?
I would have said that's what Ben was trying to get at, but I see he already did.
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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