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Author
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Topic: What is supernatural?
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 60 of 138 (136037)
08-22-2004 12:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
08-21-2004 11:51 PM
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Buz, we've been over this many, many times.
Which of them is researching on site at the Nuweiba crossing, for example? The answer is that there is no evidence that there ever was a Nuweiba crossing or any land bridge to make a crossing. When you factor in that there is no evidence that there ever was an Exodus, why would anyone waste their time investigating the Nuweiba crossing? Now as to the topic. If it was proved that there was something like the Exodus it would still not be evidence for the supernatural!
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 08-21-2004 11:51 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 12:06 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 63 of 138 (136041)
08-22-2004 12:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Buzsaw
08-22-2004 12:06 AM
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Your attitude is typical of most secularists including the professionals toward researching the supernatural dimension which exists in the universe. Except for one thing. I'm not a secularist. LOL You see Buz, you make these claims but then everytime, reality intrudes and refutes your assertions. If the Exodus was ever shown to have happened, it would still not prove the supernatural.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 12:06 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 9:29 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 69 of 138 (136175)
08-22-2004 9:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 68 by Buzsaw
08-22-2004 9:29 PM
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Time for a reality check.
Buz: If it was shown that there were Hebrews in Egypyt, that those Hebrews left Egypt, how would that show the supernatiral?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 9:29 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 9:49 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 73 of 138 (136181)
08-22-2004 10:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 71 by Buzsaw
08-22-2004 9:49 PM
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Re: Time for a reality check.
Buz Please answer the question. If it was proven that there were Hebrews in Egypt and that they left, how would that show the supernatural? The topic is "What is supernatural" You have asserted that if it was proven that the Exodus even happened, it would prove the supernatural. I believe then that a reasonable question to ask is, "If it was shown that there were Hebrews in Egypyt, that those Hebrews left Egypt, how would that show the supernatural?"
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 9:49 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 11:02 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 75 of 138 (136191)
08-22-2004 11:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Buzsaw
08-22-2004 11:02 PM
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Okay, step two.
My response was that if the Biblical account of it happened it would be supernatural. What evidence would prove the supernatural? What incidents in the Biblical account could be proved and would prove the supernatural?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Buzsaw, posted 08-22-2004 11:02 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 108 of 138 (141764)
09-12-2004 1:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by crashfrog
08-08-2004 1:11 PM
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Science can not be faulted for ignoring the supernatural until such time as the supernatural can be tested. Until such time science must, and rightly, ignore the supernatural. However, that in no way means that the supernatural does not exist.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by crashfrog, posted 08-08-2004 1:11 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Well, if it can't be tested, then it might as well not exist, because it has no effect on the natural world. But that does not necessarily hold true. The fact that something is untestable simply means that we can not test it. It says nothing about whether or not it can effect the natural world. This message has been edited by jar, 09-12-2004 03:42 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 109 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 2:43 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Super natural is a super set, not a subset.
This statement requires us to question why an effect employed upon the natural world escapes notice by us? The effect could be perfectly natural, for example the existence of the universe, the rules that seem to govern how thing operate. Yet the cause might have been supernatural. As you know, I have never asked anyone to believe in the supernatural. I do believe though that the awsome effects and existence we see about us is the product of a supernatural entity, GOD. The supernatural question is not HOW atoms hold together or the universe expand, but WHY?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by sidelined, posted 09-12-2004 6:18 PM | | sidelined has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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No, that is not what I'm saying. We can sense the four forces. But we cannot determine WHY they exist.
If you're saying it can't be tested, then you're saying it has no effect. No, I am not saying that. It has an effect, but we have been unable yet to test it. There are things we cannot explain.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 6:38 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Perhaps someday we will be able to test the supernatural. But so far we have not been able to do so. What is the problem with that?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:18 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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In what sense is any of what you're talking about "supernatural"? At best you've identitifed totally natural phenomenon that, as yet, we can't explain. Until we can explain them, they remain supernatural. Once we can explain them they may remain supernatural.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:24 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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In what way? Once we explain them, they're simply the result of natural forces or entities. In what way would they be supernatural? I don't know. Let's wait until we explain them?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:43 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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No. GOD is supernatural.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:47 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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And there we part, amicably I hope. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:50 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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But we're still no closer to understanding what is meant by "supernatural". But I think we all understand what supernatural is. It is something that can effect the world around us yet is beyond our capability to test. I believe in it, you do not. It's as simple as that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 125 by crashfrog, posted 09-12-2004 7:56 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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