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Author Topic:   Do we talk up or down to fundies?
Taz
Member (Idle past 1583 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 46 of 73 (397159)
04-24-2007 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by obvious Child
04-24-2007 6:57 PM


obvious child writes:

So what do you do with the infected?


We do what they do in 28 Days Later and 28 Weeks Later.

But seriously, about the best thing we can do is wait for them to grow old and die and hope that the next generations will be less and less infected.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by obvious Child, posted 04-24-2007 6:57 PM obvious Child has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 04-24-2007 11:01 PM Taz has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17455
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 47 of 73 (397163)
04-24-2007 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by obvious Child
04-24-2007 6:57 PM


obvious Child writes:

... this is just one board.

What's your point? Who's claiming that EvC is the cure for all the world's ills?

But you know that they will simply wash, rinse and repeat the same lies over and over and over again.

The nature of cleaning is that it's an on-going process. If it's going to get dirty again, is that an excuse to never clean it?

So what do you do with the infected?

Minimize the damage they can do.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by obvious Child, posted 04-24-2007 6:57 PM obvious Child has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 48 of 73 (397203)
04-24-2007 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Taz
04-24-2007 7:07 PM


obvious child writes:

So what do you do with the infected?


We do what they do in 28 Days Later and 28 Weeks Later.

run away?


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Taz, posted 04-24-2007 7:07 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Taz, posted 04-25-2007 1:07 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3898
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 49 of 73 (397215)
04-24-2007 11:57 PM


Blather alert!
Stop it.

Don't reply.

AM

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Change ID.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1583 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 50 of 73 (397311)
04-25-2007 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by arachnophilia
04-24-2007 11:01 PM


{edited - Taz Dev}

Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by arachnophilia, posted 04-24-2007 11:01 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2285 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 51 of 73 (398087)
04-29-2007 10:01 AM


I`ve always admired the old-timers here for their endless patience and tenacity. No sooner do they explain an allegation away (and at some considerable length), than the fool factory sends a new generation here with the same idiotic claim. The mind-set of the invader isn`t to learn, but to defeat the evilutionist with impeccable logic. And with god`s backing, how can he/she fail? How is she/he to know the ammunition is flawed. After all it SOUNDS right. Even the title of our forum speaks of confrontation--evolution VERSUS creation. So they come here not to learn, but to slay the dragon. And when the plan comes apart, they predictably use the fall-back line--'You`ll go to hell'. Or variations of it.

Judo teaches us not to oppose force with force (although I wish a few Black Belts would remember that), but to use your opponent's strength against himself. Maybe, instead of resisting fundies with the full majesty of our righteous knowledge, we should agree with them, then suggest we improve their argument by making it impregnable by tidying up the weak points. On the journey, we can white-ant his/her beliefs until the penny drops. Or not, as the case may be. :D


Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 10:39 AM Nighttrain has responded

    
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 52 of 73 (398097)
04-29-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Nighttrain
04-29-2007 10:01 AM


Nightrain:
Judo teaches us not to oppose force with force (although I wish a few Black Belts would remember that), but to use your opponent's strength against himself. Maybe, instead of resisting fundies with the full majesty of our righteous knowledge, we should agree with them, then suggest we improve their argument by making it impregnable by tidying up the weak points.

I tried that with Percy and Nosy. Let em state their case, even agree with the correct points, and then ask the question which exposes the weak link and point of tension. But they only became confused and wished it away.

Here it is with Nosy: www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11

And Percy: www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15

By the way, Jesus also said not to resist an evil person (I'm having difficulty learning the discipline). But He did know how to use thier own words against them by asking the proper question and revealing the false assumptions.

I personally reccommend that all of you continue to talk down to us 'fundies'. It is what character building is made of. When I am no longer offended, I will have mastered the discipline.

Oh, and thanks!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Nighttrain, posted 04-29-2007 10:01 AM Nighttrain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 04-29-2007 10:56 AM Rob has responded
 Message 67 by Nighttrain, posted 04-30-2007 1:07 AM Rob has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18881
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 53 of 73 (398101)
04-29-2007 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Rob
04-29-2007 10:39 AM


Rob writes:

I personally reccommend that all of you continue to talk down to us 'fundies'. It is what character building is made of. When I am no longer offended, I will have mastered the discipline.

So you're working on mastering the ability to maintain both your equanimity and your ignorance at the same time.

Here it is with Nosy: www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#11

That's one of your messages, not Nosy's.

And Percy: www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=25&t=2830&m=1#15

That's one of your messages, not mine.

By the way, Jesus also said not to resist an evil person...

Most evil people think they're one of the good guys. How do you know you're not one of the people Jesus was talking about?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 10:39 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 11:01 AM Percy has not yet responded

    
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 54 of 73 (398104)
04-29-2007 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
04-29-2007 10:56 AM


Percy:
Most evil people think they're one of the good guys. How do you know you're not one of the people Jesus was talking about?

That is the question isn't it?

Jesus told us how...

I already know I am an evil person. It is you who need to see yourself as you really are. Even that makes no sense to you in your tower of righteousness. So that is how I know.

As for the comments being mine, I know... that was the point; to show Nighttrain how I had used his suggested technique.

It failed because the hearer has no ears to hear or eyes to see.

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.

Edited by Rob, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Percy, posted 04-29-2007 10:56 AM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Fosdick, posted 04-29-2007 11:52 AM Rob has responded
 Message 57 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-29-2007 11:57 AM Rob has not yet responded
 Message 58 by Archer Opteryx, posted 04-29-2007 11:58 AM Rob has responded
 Message 59 by iceage, posted 04-29-2007 12:18 PM Rob has not yet responded

    
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1889 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 55 of 73 (398110)
04-29-2007 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Quetzal
04-23-2007 1:45 PM


Re: teaching opportunity
Quetzal:

Ignorance and superstition will almost always trump science and reason. It's ever so much easier to swallow.

Winning a debate is one thing. Winning a straw poll is another. I wasn't talking about the latter.

The debate is in the bag. You hold all the trumps. But a partisan audience is a partisan audience.

Whether the debate is Science versus Pseudoscience or Republicans versus Democrats or Coke versus Pepsi or PC versus Mac--if you're talking to a roomful of people who have already decided they're for one side of the thing, you won't win the straw poll. There aren't enough undecided voters in the room to manage it. If you sway them all you still come in under 50%. The decided voters won't budge. Not in one day, anyway.

Talk to the audience anyway, for all the reasons I said. Accept that you're talking to a partisan crowd with all the rights and privileges thereunto pertaining--then go in and do what you can. You have reality on your side. It's still the best opportunity they will have to hear an unfiltered presentation about science and how it works.

Reality is bigger than one audience. Talk to those undecideds in the room who are afraid to say out loud that they are undecided. They are always there. They aren't saying much, but they are listening.

_____

Edited by Archer Opterix, : html.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
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Fosdick 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3792 days)
Posts: 1793
From: Upper Slobovia
Joined: 12-11-2006


Message 56 of 73 (398119)
04-29-2007 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rob
04-29-2007 11:01 AM


Rob, you said:

I already know I am an evil person.

I'll take you word for it. But I don't have a clue as to what you mean. If your religion taught you that, then your religion is evil, too. I am not religious, and I don't believe I am evil. I am not perfect, either. If I ever chose to join a religion, it would have three tenets: 1) nothing is naturally evil, and everything is natural; 2) God (or Big Black Mambo Mamma, et al.) blessed me with a chance to participate in nature, and what I can or cannot do with this opportunity in ENTIRELY up to me; and 3) there is only ONE "heaven," which is more properly referred to as "Earth's biosphere"—'ashes to ashes, dust to dust'. That's all.

—HM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 11:01 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 12:22 PM Fosdick has responded

    
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1889 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 57 of 73 (398121)
04-29-2007 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rob
04-29-2007 11:01 AM


Ye Olde Double Post.

Edited by Archer Opterix, : Ye Olde Double Post.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 11:01 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1889 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 58 of 73 (398123)
04-29-2007 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rob
04-29-2007 11:01 AM


good = evil, evil = good, and do-si-do
Percy: Most evil people think they're one of the good guys. How do you know you're not one of the people Jesus was talking about?

Rob: Jesus told us how... I already know I am an evil person. [...] So that is how I know.

You know you're not one of the evil guys because you know you are one of the evil guys. Okay.

So much for morality as an absolute...


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 11:01 AM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 4:54 PM Archer Opteryx has not yet responded

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4207 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 59 of 73 (398135)
04-29-2007 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Rob
04-29-2007 11:01 AM


Rob and his buddy Jesus
Percy writes:


Most evil people think they're one of the good guys. How do you know you're not one of the people Jesus was talking about?

Rob writes:

That is the question isn't it?

I few months ago you mentioned firearms (ownership and specification) in a way to intimidate a fellow poster here. That went a long way to answering some questions. I would have canned your ass right there because I wondering just how stable you are.

Rob writes:

I already know I am an evil person. It is you who need to see yourself as you really are. Even that makes no sense to you in your tower of righteousness. So that is how I know.

Can i add, one with a really big persecution complex?

As far as self-imagined righteousness, you take top honors. You keep on spouting off like you are walking lock step with your buddy Jesus.

Rob writes:

It failed because the hearer has no ears to hear or eyes to see.

Of course you end with the very point to make my case of your false sense of righteousness and superiority.

Edited by iceage, : Now just where are those rolling eye's emoticon


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Rob, posted 04-29-2007 11:01 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Rob 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4140 days)
Posts: 2297
Joined: 06-01-2006


Message 60 of 73 (398139)
04-29-2007 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Fosdick
04-29-2007 11:52 AM


HM:
1) nothing is naturally evil, and everything is natural;

Everything?

Even Rape, murder, slander, etc...?

I knew that comment was going to cause the food critics to start opining.

The context implicit in my admission of evil and sin, is that I had to doubt myself, before I could come to Christ.

But since so many do not ever consider that they are evil, they do not need God.

So... Percy's question was really for himself, not I. I have already questioned myself. And that is what led me to my present worldview.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Fosdick, posted 04-29-2007 11:52 AM Fosdick has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Fosdick, posted 04-29-2007 1:46 PM Rob has responded

    
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