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Author Topic:   What are M-Theory and String theory etc. and are they valid scientific theories?
Taz
Member (Idle past 1681 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 48 (393917)
04-08-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Rob
04-08-2007 11:03 AM


Re: Not valid theories...
Rob writes:

They are not verifiable theories, so what is their purpose in the 'scientific sense' other than what I have proposed?


Ok, for now I'll take your word for it.

Perhaps you could enlighten us what these theories are and how they fit in with current observations? Perhaps you could also tell us how they can be falsified?

Your post comes out very strong, so I must assume that you are an expert on these theories.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Rob, posted 04-08-2007 11:03 AM Rob has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1681 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 15 of 48 (393980)
04-08-2007 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Rob
04-08-2007 1:22 PM


Re: Not valid theories...
Rob writes:

The problem with these theories is that they undermine the moral reality that you affirm with your moralizing.


Can you explain to me how M-theory or string theory undermine morality?


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Rob, posted 04-08-2007 1:22 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Rob, posted 04-09-2007 6:12 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1681 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 21 of 48 (394401)
04-11-2007 1:56 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by fallacycop
04-11-2007 12:44 AM


Re: Not valid theories...
He did get a warning, and he posted further because of my personal invitation. If anything, I'm the guilty one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by fallacycop, posted 04-11-2007 12:44 AM fallacycop has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1681 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 23 of 48 (394541)
04-12-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Rob
04-11-2007 8:39 PM


Re: Not valid theories?... or is it just more muddled thinking by Rob?
Being a science fiction fannut, I think I know what you are talking about. There have been science fiction novels, movies, and shows that have tackled this very concept.

For example, in stargate sg-1 series, there was an episode (season 3 I think) where an alternate version of one of the main characters came through a "quantum mirror" from an earth ravaged by an alien invasion. According to the alternate main character, in the first day of the invasion alone, bombardment from orbit killed an estimated 1.5 billion people. In the days after, people were systematically put in chains to be shipped off into slavery by the aliens. Obviously, the main characters of this "quantum reality" found a way many months ago to protect earth from such a fate. As one of the characters described the situation, "What did we have that they didn't? Our fate." We, as the viewers, knew that the main characters of this show knew a way to save the alternate earth and the alternate population.

Obviously, any viewer who has a conscience should think that the main characters ought to have helped save the alternate earth and its people, but they decided not to. They all agreed that whatever the hell happened in the alternate reality had absolutely no consequence whatsoever on their world. Dr. Jackson turned out to be the only person that pointed out that he felt a kind of cosmic responsibility to at least lift a finger to help these billions of people who were being killed and enslaved.

I think Rob fears that if indeed there are alternate universes that we would not feel any moral obligation toward the other universes because ultimately nothing that happens in the other universes would have any consequence on this one.

I just want Rob to know that not all of us feel that way, and I think that was what the story writers of that particular episode intended. While almost all the main characters in that episode felt absolutely nothing (no sorrow, no sympathy, nada, nothing) for the billions of humans in the alternate universe who were being killed and enslaved, one character spoke up and professed that he felt a kind of universal moral obligation to at least do something to help save the remaining humans in that universe.

Anyway, my personal opinion at least... this is the only point Rob ever raised that made any sense.

Now, I would also like to point out that whether we "like" an idea or not out of personal beliefs has absolutely no bearing on whether the idea is true or not. I've said this before and I'm going to say it again. Yellow is my favorite color. I'd like the idea that the sky is yellow. But obviously the sky is blue during the day, orangish-reddish in the evening, and black during the night. No amount of my dislike for the colors blue, red, and black or amount of my positive attitude toward the color yellow is going to make the sky yellow.

In the same token, whether there is a universal morality that applies to all the quantum universes or not has absolutely no bearing on whether these universes actually exist or not.

Added by edit.

By the way, in the end, the person in charge ordered the quantum mirror destroyed, permanently disconnecting their reality from the rest of alternate universe, implying that the other characters indeed did feel some kind of sorrow or sympathy for the victims in the other universe but would rather not face the enormous responsibility. It's like changing the channel everytime one of those commercials that show victims of extreme poverty turned up.

Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.


Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Rob, posted 04-11-2007 8:39 PM Rob has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Rob, posted 04-12-2007 12:56 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
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