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Author Topic:   why creation "science" isn't science
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7115 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 349 of 365 (6633)
03-11-2002 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by joz
03-11-2002 12:13 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
What he`s saying is that evolution is a process which acts on any system of self replicators where that replication can contain copying errors....

As such it doesn`t require a begining, it`s just there and acts on any extant system....


lets discuss the beginning then.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by joz, posted 03-11-2002 12:13 AM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by joz, posted 03-12-2002 8:20 AM KingPenguin has taken no action
 Message 353 by joz, posted 03-12-2002 8:21 AM KingPenguin has taken no action
 Message 354 by joz, posted 03-12-2002 8:40 AM KingPenguin has taken no action
 Message 358 by mark24, posted 03-12-2002 2:34 PM KingPenguin has taken no action
 Message 361 by LudvanB, posted 03-14-2002 9:48 PM KingPenguin has taken no action
 Message 362 by LudvanB, posted 03-14-2002 9:48 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7115 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 350 of 365 (6634)
03-11-2002 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by LudvanB
03-11-2002 8:18 AM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:
KP,i have never seen ANYONE who in their right mind has used evolution as a proof against God. The two are not mutually exclusive.


lets learn about the beginning so we can argue some more, lol.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by LudvanB, posted 03-11-2002 8:18 AM LudvanB has taken no action

  
KingPenguin
Member (Idle past 7115 days)
Posts: 286
From: Freeland, Mi USA
Joined: 02-04-2002


Message 351 of 365 (6635)
03-11-2002 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by LudvanB
03-11-2002 8:18 AM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:
KP,i have never seen ANYONE who in their right mind has used evolution as a proof against God. The two are not mutually exclusive.


lets learn about the beginning so we can argue some more, lol.

------------------
"Overspecialize and you breed in weakness" -"Major" Motoko Kusanagi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by LudvanB, posted 03-11-2002 8:18 AM LudvanB has taken no action

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 352 of 365 (6663)
03-12-2002 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lets discuss the beginning then.


Go to the abiogenesis thread and I`ll be happy to....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 353 of 365 (6664)
03-12-2002 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lets discuss the beginning then.


Go to the abiogenesis thread and I`ll be happy to....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 354 of 365 (6667)
03-12-2002 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lets discuss the beginning then.


Take it to Genes abiogenesis thread and I`ll be happy to....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 4427 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 355 of 365 (6684)
03-12-2002 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by KingPenguin
03-10-2002 11:58 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
evolution cannot be an explanation for life as we know it if it does not have any where to start, it can however still occur. so you cant as of now hold up evolution as proof against God. Which probably means that evolution and creationism cannot be effectively debated until your willing to give it a beginning and maybe even an end.


Abiogenesis started life, evolution had to wait one entire generation before it got cracking. Therefore life existed before evolution began, & is separate from it.

When I said evolution didn't need a beginning I was speaking hypothetically (I admit I wasn't clear on this). If life existed forever (like God) then evolution didn't need a beginning, it always happened, & it is entirely separated from abiogenesis, which in this hypothetical never happened.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by KingPenguin, posted 03-10-2002 11:58 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 4427 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 356 of 365 (6685)
03-12-2002 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by KingPenguin
03-10-2002 11:58 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
evolution cannot be an explanation for life as we know it if it does not have any where to start, it can however still occur. so you cant as of now hold up evolution as proof against God. Which probably means that evolution and creationism cannot be effectively debated until your willing to give it a beginning and maybe even an end.


Abiogenesis started life, evolution had to wait one entire generation before it got cracking. Therefore life existed before evolution began, & is separate from it.

When I said evolution didn't need a beginning I was speaking hypothetically (I admit I wasn't clear on this). If life existed forever (like God) then evolution didn't need a beginning, it always happened, & it is entirely separated from abiogenesis, which in this hypothetical never happened.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by KingPenguin, posted 03-10-2002 11:58 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 4427 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 357 of 365 (6686)
03-12-2002 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by KingPenguin
03-10-2002 11:58 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
evolution cannot be an explanation for life as we know it if it does not have any where to start, it can however still occur. so you cant as of now hold up evolution as proof against God. Which probably means that evolution and creationism cannot be effectively debated until your willing to give it a beginning and maybe even an end.


Abiogenesis started life, evolution had to wait one entire generation before it got cracking. Therefore life existed before evolution began, & abiogenesis is separate from it.

When I said evolution didn't need a beginning I was speaking hypothetically (I admit I wasn't clear on this). If life existed forever (like God) then evolution didn't need a beginning, it always happened, & it is entirely separated from abiogenesis, which in this hypothetical never happened.

Nor do I hold evolution as proof against God, just evidence against recent special creation.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by KingPenguin, posted 03-10-2002 11:58 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 4427 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 358 of 365 (6694)
03-12-2002 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


Sorry if this appears more than once, doesn't seem to be updating messages........

quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
evolution cannot be an explanation for life as we know it if it does not have any where to start, it can however still occur. so you cant as of now hold up evolution as proof against God. Which probably means that evolution and creationism cannot be effectively debated until your willing to give it a beginning and maybe even an end.


Abiogenesis started life, evolution had to wait one entire generation before it got cracking. Therefore life existed before evolution began, & abiogenesis is separate from it.

When I said evolution didn't need a beginning I was speaking hypothetically (I admit I wasn't clear on this). If life existed forever (like God) then evolution didn't need a beginning, it always happened, & it is entirely separated from abiogenesis, which in this hypothetical never happened.

Nor do I hold evolution as proof against God, just evidence against recent special creation.

Mark

------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20749
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 360 of 365 (6854)
03-14-2002 8:39 PM


testing...

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 361 of 365 (6864)
03-14-2002 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lets discuss the beginning then.


How could anyone discuss "the begining" as anything other than vague theories...we dont possess any evidence to illustrate what "the begining" was actually like (and no,scriptural quotation from your chosen book of myths is not evidence)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
LudvanB
Inactive Member


Message 362 of 365 (6865)
03-14-2002 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 349 by KingPenguin
03-11-2002 10:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
lets discuss the beginning then.


How could anyone discuss "the begining" as anything other than vague theories...we dont possess any evidence to illustrate what "the begining" was actually like (and no,scriptural quotation from your chosen book of myths is not evidence)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by KingPenguin, posted 03-11-2002 10:50 PM KingPenguin has taken no action

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 363 of 365 (6869)
03-14-2002 10:46 PM


I can't get the next pages of this topic to appear

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20749
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 364 of 365 (7730)
03-24-2002 3:50 PM


This thread had been closed due to technical problems, but it has now been reopened. Enjoy! Please report any problems to admin@.

--Percy

PS - For those with a technical bent and an interest, here's what happened:

A few weeks ago this thread began experiencing technical difficulties when new posts stopped appearing. The problem was traced to this site's webhosting company, God Bless Them, who without notifying their customers placed limits on the size and time that programs can run. As soon as a thread reaches around 24 pages it becomes too long for the HTML pages to be generated without exceeding these limits.

I didn't hold out much hope of fixing this until I looked at the code, which was written by, God Bless Them, InfoPop. I've made so many modifications to their code that I'm very familiar with it (the message numbers are one modification), and I noticed that the HTML generation routine is recursive instead of iterative. By itself this isn't too serious, unless some of the variables contain large amounts of data. But every 15 messages (15 messages/page) the routine calls itself and READS THE ENTIRE THREAD, ALL 750,000 BYTES OF IT, INTO A VARIABLE!

With around 360 messages in the thread that translates into the routine calling itself 24 times and taking 18 MegaBytes total just for the 24 copies of that one variable. The webhost places a limit of 32 MegaBytes on a process, and that's the limit I believe was being violated.

I rewrote the routine to be iterative, and so all should be well for the time being. Hopefully I've pushed the limit above what any thread could reasonably reach.

[This message has been edited by Percipient, 03-24-2002]


  
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