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Author Topic:   Uniformitarianism & Age of Creationists' Earth
gregrjones
Junior Member (Idle past 5655 days)
Posts: 4
From: kettering, ohio, u.s.a.
Joined: 09-23-2008


Message 48 of 54 (484602)
09-29-2008 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
01-19-2008 5:47 PM


Re: Contradictory beliefs
Do young-earth creationists really believe in a different physics? Why would they need to? The relativity of time might, for instance, allow for a young earth and an old universe.
But regarding uniformitarianism, I see it as a reason to not put too much stock in science's ability to determine origins.
How can we really know whether or not processes we measure and observe today occurred at the same rates throughout all of the universe or earth's existence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by nwr, posted 01-19-2008 5:47 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 09-29-2008 9:49 PM gregrjones has replied

  
gregrjones
Junior Member (Idle past 5655 days)
Posts: 4
From: kettering, ohio, u.s.a.
Joined: 09-23-2008


Message 50 of 54 (484840)
10-02-2008 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Coragyps
09-29-2008 9:49 PM


Re: Contradictory beliefs
But epistemologically speaking, we KNOW very little when it comes to origins.
Empirical science not only proposes a theory, but it tests it thru repeated observation to confirm or deny the theory. We can't do that with origins, so we make assumptions like uniformitarianism.
Check out this article:
The New York Times | Fox News
It gives us a new and different assumption. Instead of using dark matter to explain the universe, some scientists are now suggesting that the earth may exist in a giant cosmic bubble.
According to the article, this also explains why the universe is expanding.
There is a line in the article that states that if we DID live in such a bubble objects in space would be closer than they appear. The logical implication for such a universe would be that it would be younger.
Something else interesting about the article is that it states that one problem with the theory is that it would shatter the Copernican notion that our corner of the universe is no special place.
But as long as this is the only place in the universe where we can find life, this IS a special place.
My point is simply that an evolutionist has as much faith as a creationist given the nature of origins and epistemology.

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 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 09-29-2008 9:49 PM Coragyps has not replied

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 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2008 8:11 AM gregrjones has replied

  
gregrjones
Junior Member (Idle past 5655 days)
Posts: 4
From: kettering, ohio, u.s.a.
Joined: 09-23-2008


Message 52 of 54 (484901)
10-02-2008 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by RAZD
10-02-2008 8:11 AM


Re: Contradictory beliefs
Razd wrote:
Curiously I saw no reference to age of the universe in the article, so it appears that you are interpreting things from an article written by fox news. Have you read the source article by the scientist/s?
How could we interpret the statement about things appearing farther than they are in any other way than that this would imply a younger age of the universe? After all, isn't the distance that light has to travel across the universe from the stars a chief reason why we believe in an old universe?
Curiously that would not change the location of SN1987A at a mere 168,000 light years away, so the "bubble" is pretty big ... IF it exists.
Why would the bubble have to be unreasonably huge to skew our perceptions of the distance of SN1987A?
As long as you make up stuff about what evolutionists have faith in so that you can conclude you are correct.
What I have "faith" in involves the nature of objective reality being a true measure of that reality. There is a big difference between accepting ideas completely and using ideas as tentative explanations until better ones come along.
I hope you are not implying that I'm making stuff about what evolutionists believe. If so, please be more specific.
But I see the straw men on both sides. For instance, as a creationist, I see no conflict with believing in an old universe and my Christian faith.
Furthermore, because I believe in the dynamic inspiration (as opposed to the plenary inspiration) of the Bible, arguments against Biblical inerrancy don't conflict with my faith.
Does your faith mean that objective reality doesn't exist, can't be measured, observed, etc and used to test the validity of ideas?
Of course I believe in objective reality. And I believe in such an objective reality because I believe in objective truth.
Can truth be objective in a world where there is NOT a God?
I believe it was Einstein who once said, "The amazing thing about the universe is that it is knowable at all." This resonates with my Christianity which says that God initiated the relationship with man by revealing Himself (not the other way around).
You may ask this question because of a common straw man about faith, or at least about Christian faith. Christian faith isn't simply believing. Christian faith has an object. That object is what we call the Word of God.
Christianity teaches this in many places, but the most profound picture I can think of, is when it calls the son of God the Word of God and says that the Word became flesh. This is the convergence between the propositional and the existential.
I therefore don't simply believe... I believe in a God who has revealed Himself in a real historical event thru His son.
Edited by gregrjones, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2008 8:11 AM RAZD has replied

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