Intelligent Design has no Place in the Classroom of Science

We cannot leave the students in a limbo in the absence of any suitable explanation for the origin of life. Just as we are discussing, we must be honest enough to admit the facts before the students. Is this too much to ask. There is no proof for creation. No one lived billions of years ago to record the events. Rusting is not a chemical evolution. Rusting is a process in which iron is converted into the oxide form. You can say that this is how iron is degraded. This does not contribute to the evolution of life. This is a poor example for chemical evolution. Look at the obsession of all those who believe in evolution!!!!!!!!

I do not understand why you have to call names instead of answering the questions. If you have no answer you must admit it. This is the problem with the defenders of abortion and evolution.

"This isn't a theory, its an experiment, so falsification isn't really an issue. The experiment demonstrates that a process can design an object, and that intelligence isn't required. Its doubly powerful because the experiment wasn't set up to design a radio"Here, we have a cart before the horse. The design itself is a process. Process is not design. Process does not design anything. PRocess is the outcome of a design.

I don't see where he did that in the post you mentioned. Who said anything about abortion?

Dr.Stephen Cheesman,Ph.D is a geophysicist and a software developer. This is what he says about DNA "I look at biology as being very complicated computer code. There is no way I could create a code like this. In the DNA you have a novel,a long novel,spelled out, which produces US. We are skecptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence of Darwinian theory should be encouraged".
Tony Jelsma,Ph.D(McMaster) ( Ontario) TEaches Evolution and he points out the flaws in this theory to his students."If you look at the research into origin of life,there is not asingly plausible hypothesis or even aproposed mechanism(within evolution) that would have worked. That is the biggest shortcoming in the whole evolutionary scenario I would rather we think a little bit outside the Darminian rut".The Canadian Scientists are circulation a petition denouncing Evolution.In Colorado,ID is being taught in a school which has produced the best students. The students are taught Evolution because they have to get grades. (Academic Tyranny). For Real Science, they are taught Intelligent Design. Many of these students are challenging their teachers concerning Evolution.

What's the name of the school, I'm interested to see what they are doing, and I'd love to see their curriculum!

How does expertise of a geophsysist matter when it comes to biological evolution?As for that biology teacher.. let us look at the place he teaches.From the 'about us' section of the college he teaches at and from their 'our philosphy' section So, you have one scientist who is making comments about an area of study that is not his field, and the other one is a teacher in a college that proclaims that the bible is the infallible word of god.Is that the best you can do? An appeal to authority for one, and the other one has an obvious religius axe to grind.

Who's calling names? I am merely pointing out that your question is irrelevant to the topic at hand, serves no purpose on this particular thread, and is, in the context of this thread, nonsense.On the other hand, it might be an interesting question in the appropriate place.

---

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

quote:

---

Dr.Stephen Cheesman,Ph.D is a geophysicist and a software developer. This is what he says about DNA....

---

Heh. As ramoss asked: why should I take his opinion seriously? Especially since he is comparing the product of eons of incremental improvements with what he cannot do in a single afternoon, all at once?

---

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

One might point out that he may look at biology as a computer code but it isn't anything like a computer code. You may, if you wish, open a topic on that.And Jelsma is supposed to be talking about evolution but instead discusses the origin of life. Since the ToE is about the behaviour of biological organisms it obviously can't have anything to do with the origin of life.Both you references obviously don't really know what they are talking about.

The process isn't design, but the process can design. A process can design something. We have shown you evidence of this happening. I can show you more if you want. Not necessarily. There are processes that exist that we have no evidence were designed by anybody. I'm sure you've heard of the water cycle, the birth and death of stars etc.Also, a process can be designed that designs some other thing. We have shown the evidence, would you like more?

The Geophysicist is now a Software developer. The reference here is not to his training as a Geophysicist, but is only to the complex Code for the DNA. Even if it refers to his training, what is wrong with his question? Once again, those who cannot defend attack the messenger. As far as the Christian College is concerned, the professor is only affirming the Statement of faith of that college. What is wrong with this? You do not go there. leave them alone.

Yes, where is the evidence?

Leave them alone? When they are perverting the message of GOD? When they are promoting wilfull ignorance and forcing on the inocent children?No way. As a Christian I MUST speak out against such perversions.To quote the Clergy Project:

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

tell me, what expertise would a computer programmar and geophysicist have on DNA? why would we consider him a source on DNA? the reason we ask this is, I could look at DNA and say the same bloody thing as a programmer, why ask him?
you don't ask a plumber how to fix a car or ask a mechanic how to fix your sink. i'd ask this guy about the earth or programming not aboud DNA why do you care if we question the school? the fact is a christian school might say DNA is too complex for reasons outside of science. so sorry if we take this with a grain of salt{ABE:after reading back i realized, the school teachs a bible based education, well there you go, it doesn't really help them have any authority about DNA}This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 03-03-2006 03:37 AM