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Author Topic:   YEC approaches to empirical investigation
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 273 of 303 (261954)
11-21-2005 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Faith
11-21-2005 11:52 AM


Re: Debates seldom happen here
Creationists do not EXPLAIN anything as supernatural. This is an evolutionist hallucination. The Flood is explained in purely natural terms.

Uh-huh. And you've examined the posting history of every creationist who has ever posted here in order to arrive at your conclusion?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 11:52 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 11-21-2005 12:21 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 303 (261967)
11-21-2005 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Faith
11-21-2005 12:35 PM


Re: Debates seldom happen here
So that's your premise and I disagree with it. What now?

Prove him wrong. Show how his premise logically necessitates a conclusion not consistent with reality as we observe it.

Proof by contradiction is how premises are challenged. If the premise leads to a conclusion inconsistent with observation, then the premise is wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 12:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 303 (261969)
11-21-2005 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
11-21-2005 12:41 PM


Re: Debates seldom happen here
The word of God DOES trump all contradictions of course. Truly, this ought to be obvious and indisputable. God made it all, God knows what it's all about, so true science, logic and reason are on the side of God's word. Logically this is impeccable reasoning. How can you deny it?

Because it's a premise that there's no reason to accept. Thus, you should not be surprised to find that people do no accept it.

You don't simply get to present premises and expect them to be accepted in the absence of support; neither do we. A premise is the basis of an argument but it's not something that you just get to demand acceptence for, just because you presented it.

I mean, any statement can be a premise, so that'd be a pretty convinient way to short-circuit a debate, don't you think? Just present your conclusion as a premise and then claim it was beyond challenge because all premises must be accepted?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 12:41 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 1:03 PM crashfrog has responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 284 of 303 (261972)
11-21-2005 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
11-21-2005 12:50 PM


Re: why the YEC postion is bankrupt.
By refusing to recognize the YEC premise you do indeed demand that I accept the evo premise.

Well, hey, here's a hell of an idea. Let's each support our premises with argumentation. We could even do this over the internet, at a website that lets us post text and links in sequential form, organized by topic into "threads." Even better we could have a set of volunteers from both sides - maybe you could even be one - who agree to enforce a limited set of rules about civility and form so that the discussion stays on topic and stays civil. Maybe we could organize the site into different topics, like "Is it science?" or "Cosmology".

I wonder where we could find a site like that?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 12:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 303 (261983)
11-21-2005 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Faith
11-21-2005 1:03 PM


Re: Debates seldom happen here
IF God has spoken on a subject, not accepting what God has said is not an option.

Defend the premise. Why should I believe that God has spoken on a subject?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 1:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 1:18 PM crashfrog has responded

crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 293 of 303 (261987)
11-21-2005 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Faith
11-21-2005 1:18 PM


Re: Debates seldom happen here
In the present context I am asserting it as a presupposition

You don't get to, in any context. In general, because no unchallengeable premises are allowed here, and specifically in your case because you've never succcesfully defended it. You've been proven wrong about it in every thread I've ever read.

So defend the premise. I grant you that, if your premise is correct - that indeed, the account in Genesis is intended by God to be an accurate, divinely-dictated account of what actually happened - then indeed, no disagreement with it could be coherent. That argument is valid.

But there's no reason to accept your premise, so there's no reason to accept that your argument is actually true. With an untrue premise, your argument is valid but not true.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 1:18 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Faith, posted 11-21-2005 1:44 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

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