Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8897 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 03-18-2019 1:55 PM
135 online now:
AnswersInGenitals, Diomedes, edge, kjsimons, PaulK, ringo, Tangle (7 members, 128 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 848,429 Year: 3,466/19,786 Month: 461/1,087 Week: 51/212 Day: 12/39 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456Next
Author Topic:   Tesla and Superweapons.
Son Goku
Member (Idle past 37 days)
Posts: 1120
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


Message 1 of 81 (462371)
04-02-2008 5:58 PM


There is a tradition dating back to cold war times of what may be called superweapons. These are weapons which usually have some mythological quality about them, either due to their extreme power, their use of secret futuristic technology or supernatural origins.

In this thread I would like to focus on the superweapons which are more scientifically oriented, rather than the supernatural ones. How likely is it that they exist? Are they even scientifically possible?

An important figure when it comes to discussing these weapons is Nikola Tesla(Никола Тесла). The father of Alternating Current, he has a mythos surrounding him of the mysterious/mad scientist and more importantly he has recently become a symbol for suppressed knowledge. It is the opinion of certain groups that information on the electromagnetic force has been kept from general knowledge and that Tesla had access to this.

This leads on to the final aspect this thread should discuss. That there are scientific discoveries with important military or practical implications which have been withheld from the public.

So basically:
Are there superweapons?
Are they plausible in the first place?
Is there secret scientific knowledge?
What is the truth in Tesla conspiracies?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-03-2008 1:23 AM Son Goku has responded
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 04-03-2008 3:39 AM Son Goku has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12578
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2 of 81 (462393)
04-02-2008 8:53 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Taz
Member (Idle past 1364 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 81 (462411)
04-03-2008 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Son Goku
04-02-2008 5:58 PM


Son Goku writes:

Are there superweapons?


I'm sure there are. The question really ought to be are these superweapons actually practical?

Are they plausible in the first place?

They are very plausible in the first place.

Is there secret scientific knowledge?

I'm sure the military has secret technologies up their sleeves. That said, don't hold your breath for photon torpedos and warp drives anytime soon.

What is the truth in Tesla conspiracies?

While competing with Edison, Tesla had this idea that he could transmit "free" energy through the air to people. Some conspiracy theorists have even "theorized" that it was Tesla's experiment that caused the multi-megaton explosion in Tunguska in Siberia.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Son Goku, posted 04-02-2008 5:58 PM Son Goku has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by obvious Child, posted 04-03-2008 1:59 AM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 6 by cavediver, posted 04-03-2008 3:47 AM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Son Goku, posted 04-03-2008 6:50 AM Taz has responded

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 4 of 81 (462415)
04-03-2008 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
04-03-2008 1:23 AM


Exactly.

Any government can make a supercharged weapon. But to make it practical, not massively expensive, mobile and actually usable is something entirely different.

Even the Navy's rail gun is downright questionable given the necessary power requirements as well as the problems of using it more then once during combat as the rails that make up the barrel are toasted after the first round. We know it works. But is it practical?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-03-2008 1:23 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3975
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 8.1


Message 5 of 81 (462416)
04-03-2008 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Son Goku
04-02-2008 5:58 PM


Cobalt bombs can be pretty mean if they are big enough. But to use one as a super weapon would take villainy of James Bond proportions.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Son Goku, posted 04-02-2008 5:58 PM Son Goku has not yet responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 6 of 81 (462417)
04-03-2008 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
04-03-2008 1:23 AM


Son Goku writes:

Is there secret scientific knowledge?

I'm sure the military has secret technologies up their sleeves.

There is a HUGE difference between secret scientific knowledge and secret technology. Most of the conspiracy theories revolve around the former (which 'obviously' leads to the latter) and is pure bullshit, and never actually promoted by anyone who has a clue about the relevant science (e/m, gravity, 'electrograv')

Or at least, that's what I've been paid to say ;)

CD (one-time passionate advocate of the Philedelphia Experiment :o )


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-03-2008 1:23 AM Taz has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 04-03-2008 9:01 AM cavediver has responded

  
Annafan
Member (Idle past 2652 days)
Posts: 418
From: Belgium
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 7 of 81 (462420)
04-03-2008 5:10 AM


Integer Factorization
Along the same lines: what is the chance that military intelligence might have secret super-efficient algorithms to break cryptography based on prime factorization? Would be a massive "weapon" indeed. Not as spectacular as a Dead Ray, but maybe even more dangerous :)
    
Son Goku
Member (Idle past 37 days)
Posts: 1120
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


Message 8 of 81 (462421)
04-03-2008 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
04-03-2008 1:23 AM


Superweapons.
I should be clearer about what exactly makes something a superweapon. A quick example would be, a rail gun is not a superweapon and Philadelphia experiment technology is. Basically a superweapon is something which if it did exist would indicate governments have technology way, way in advance of what the public know about it.

An example of something which marks the boundary between superweapon and regular weapon would be the ion cannons or any space based "beam-weapon". This is conceivably within our scientific framework, but would be a huge financial drain to construct.

I also should have been clearer about something else. As cavediver said, secret scientific knowledge is quite different to secret technology. And example of secret scientific knowledge would be claims that the government/other groups hid part of Maxwell's equations from the public. What we learn in textbooks is only three-quarters of what Maxwell really found.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 04-03-2008 1:23 AM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by obvious Child, posted 04-04-2008 4:58 PM Son Goku has not yet responded
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 04-05-2008 3:32 AM Son Goku has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18307
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 9 of 81 (462425)
04-03-2008 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by cavediver
04-03-2008 3:47 AM


cavediver writes:

CD (one-time passionate advocate of the Philedelphia Experiment :o )

"Philedelphia"? You must be one of those Englenders. :D

That was one fine movie! Haven't seen it in 20 years, maybe I'll put it on my Netflix list. I assume your diminishment of ardor was related to the science and not the movie itself?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by cavediver, posted 04-03-2008 3:47 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by cavediver, posted 04-03-2008 3:04 PM Percy has not yet responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 10 of 81 (462458)
04-03-2008 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Percy
04-03-2008 9:01 AM


"Philedelphia"? You must be one of those Englenders.

I knew something was wrong as I wrote it, but wasn't totally sure :)

The movie was great and I was fully into the 'science' at that time as a young teenager. A friend and I had already traced the full history of the DE-166 USS Eldridge through every copy of Janes we could order at the library. I probably read Berlitz when I was 11 or 12, and shortly after discovered my father had a copy of Thin Air (the fictional novelisation of the PE.)

I must have started to lose faith through sixth form, being fed a much healthier diet of Feynman, Weinberg and Einstein. By the time I started uni I was sure it was purely mythical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Percy, posted 04-03-2008 9:01 AM Percy has not yet responded

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 11 of 81 (462535)
04-04-2008 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Son Goku
04-03-2008 6:50 AM


Re: Superweapons.
I'd disagree with that segmentation. A super weapon is merely a weapon that is vastly superior to one's opponent's arsenal. The machine gun for example allowed a small British platoon to kill thousands of African warriors without losing a man. That's a super weapon. A weapon that so vastly superior that it allows numerical inferiority to have virtually assured victory. A rail gun today would be a super weapon as a single ship with a rail gun could devastate an enemy fleet.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Son Goku, posted 04-03-2008 6:50 AM Son Goku has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by cavediver, posted 04-04-2008 7:23 PM obvious Child has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 12 of 81 (462537)
04-04-2008 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by obvious Child
04-04-2008 4:58 PM


Re: Superweapons.
I'd disagree with that segmentation

Huh? SG has defined what HE means by superweapon in HIS thread, and he has also clarified that meaning. Not really much for you to disagree with there... if I get around to a thread on supersymmetry, are you going to tell me how a butterfly expresses some really super symmetry?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by obvious Child, posted 04-04-2008 4:58 PM obvious Child has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by obvious Child, posted 04-06-2008 5:27 PM cavediver has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1364 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 81 (462559)
04-05-2008 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Son Goku
04-03-2008 6:50 AM


Re: Superweapons.
To clear this up a bit, would you consider a nuclear weapon a "super weapon"?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Son Goku, posted 04-03-2008 6:50 AM Son Goku has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2008 5:42 PM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 04-06-2008 5:47 PM Taz has not yet responded
 Message 18 by Son Goku, posted 04-06-2008 7:14 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 14 of 81 (462659)
04-06-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by cavediver
04-04-2008 7:23 PM


Re: Superweapons.
I guess, but his definition seems poor. Especially given historical context.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by cavediver, posted 04-04-2008 7:23 PM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Son Goku, posted 04-06-2008 7:05 PM obvious Child has responded

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1716 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 15 of 81 (462661)
04-06-2008 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
04-05-2008 3:32 AM


Re: Superweapons.
As SG seems to be on weekend sabbatical...

would you consider a nuclear weapon a "super weapon"?

No. It was built using the latest nuclear science of the day, but it was not 'hidden' science in any way. However, the technology and engineering involved was hidden. A modern day equivalent would be the F-117 and the B2.

Superweapons, as SG defines them, are supposed technologies based upon supposed science that has been developed and kept secret by the military; weapons based upon Tesla's electrograv, Einstein's Unfied Field Theory, Brown's Lifetr technology, and of course, science gleaned from the contents of Hnager 18...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 04-05-2008 3:32 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
1
23456Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019