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Author Topic:   what is a scientific theory of creation
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 25 of 58 (4658)
02-15-2002 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Cobra_snake
02-14-2002 3:05 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
[B] It also might be of interest if you post your own theory so that TrueCreation or I could see exactly what your criterion is for a scientific theory. [/QUOTE]
Here is the link to a very good definition of science, which contains an explanation about what makes a theory a scientific one:
http://www.skepdic.com/science.html
"The logical and empirical methods of science
There is no single scientific method. Some of the methods of science
involve logic, e.g., drawing inferences or deductions from hypotheses,
or thinking out the logical implications of causal relationships in terms of necessary or sufficient conditions. Some of the methods are empirical, such as making observations, designing controlled experiments, or designing instruments to use in collecting data.
Scientific methods are impersonal. Thus, whatever one scientist is able to do qua scientist, any other scientist should be able to duplicate. When a person claims to measure or observe something by some purely subjective method, which others cannot duplicate, that person is not doing science. When scientists cannot duplicate the work of another scientist that is a clear sign that the scientist has erred either in design, methodology, observation, calculation, or calibration.
scientific facts and theories
Science does not assume it knows the truth about the empirical world a
priori. Science assumes it must discover its knowledge. Those who claim to know empirical truth a priori (such as so-called scientific
creationists) cannot be talking about scientific knowledge. Science
presupposes a regular order to nature and assumes there are underlying
principles according to which natural phenomena work. It assumes that
these principles or laws are relatively constant. But it does not assume that it can know a priori either what these principles are or what the actual order of any set of empirical phenomena is.
A scientific theory is a unified set of principles, knowledge, and
methods for explaining the behavior of some specified range of
empirical phenomena. Scientific theories attempt to understand the
world of observation and sense experience. They attempt to explain
how the natural world works.
A scientific theory must have some logical consequences we can test
against empirical facts by making predictions based on the theory. The
exact nature of the relationship of a scientific theory making predictions and being tested is something about which philosophers widely disagree, however (Kourany 1997)."
There is more at the site. Please read it.
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-14-2002 3:05 PM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 39 of 58 (9172)
05-02-2002 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Cobra_snake
02-17-2002 1:10 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
[b]I read the entire article, front to back (I read it about a month ago when you last provided the link). However, I am somehow under the impression that the person who wrote this definition is not much of a supporter of Creation Science:
"Those who claim to know empirical truth a priori (such as so-called scientific creationists) cannot be talking about scientific knowledge."[/QUOTE]
I would agree that the author is not a supporter of Creation Science.
This is because, as painstakingly explained in the essay, Creation "science" claims to be scientific, yet does not follow any of the tennets of science.
In other words, Creation "science" is attempting to use the trappings and language of science to appear scientific dishonestly. They promote their religious cause under a pseudoscientific disguise to fool people into beliving that what they do is as reliable as what real scientists do and what authentic science has produced.
I find this dishonest activity denigrating to both science and religion.
quote:
Well the question is not whether or not this author thinks Creation science is science, the question is whether or not he is correct in his claim.
Well, Creation "scientists" do claim to know emperical truth a priori, don't they? They are therefore violating a main tennet of science, so are not doing science, by definition.
It would seem that the author is correct.
quote:
First of all, I know of at least ONE evolutionist who changed his thinking to become a creationists (Gary Parker).
So what?
quote:
I do realize that there are probably quite a few examples of Creationists changing to Evolutionists,
Actually, I doubt it. Creationism is a religious belief taught to people from infancy, and people tend to not challenge such beliefs, particulary if the think that they will go to hell if they stop believing.
quote:
but this simply does not matter, because the principal is the same.
The scientific principals are the same, it's true. Creation "science" is still not science because it violates the tennets of science.
quote:
Also, I think the claim is unfair because I think many evolutionists start of with a bias towards a naturalistic point of view.
Look, either Creation "science" follows the tennets of science or it doesn't. Since it doesn't, it isn't science. Additionally, since it is steeped in Protestant Christianity and it's very basis is a certain interpretation of the Christian Bible, it bears a greater resemblance to a religion than to a science.
[QUOTE]I promise, I DID read the article and I DID find it fairly interesting.[/B]
Good, I'm glad. I'm disappointed that you seem to be waving away every point it made with the cry of "bias", though.
Perhaps you would be interested in discussing the specific tennets of and characteristics of science here. Pick one and we'll have a go.
Here's the link again for your convenience:
http://www.skepdic.com/science.html
Allison
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-17-2002 1:10 PM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 47 of 58 (9946)
05-18-2002 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Strawman
05-18-2002 5:03 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Strawman:
I'm sure most evolutionists just hate this site, but here goes:
http://www.trueorigin.org/creatheory.asp

No, I don't "just hate" the site, although it is rather silly.
I have it bookmarked, actually.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Strawman, posted 05-18-2002 5:03 AM Strawman has not replied

  
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