All Evolutionary scientists have been Evolutionary Indoctrinated

Do you mean REAL professor or american "anyone who works in the place has a title of professor" professor*?Can give us the name of this prof or the name of the papers he has submitted making those claims?* no slight intended - but to the british ear, the use of professor by americans can cover a range of people. Best to identify who we mean and narrow his qualifications and expertise at this stage.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 07:31 AM

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The issue is how evolutionary-believing scientists can know or can show, that their science isn't filtered through EI-tinted glasses.

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No that's entirely back to front. You need to demonstrate that the effect exists first. You seem to misunderstand how this works, you make the claim, you provide the evidence.So in your next post try the following:My first piece of evidence is

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Evolution is a partisan/sectarian theory. Up until the time of Darwin, Science held that the world was created by an ordered, logical being (God). Evolution posed a mechanism whereby God could be dispensed with. Some would say that Evolution is the partisan/sectarian Gospel according to Darwin and Co.

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But that simply not true - Evolution says nothing at all about the hand of God - that's just your take on it. It also totally overlooks the historical impact of creationists on the sciences. in additon "The world was created" - again nothing at all to do with evolution.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 12:31 PM

When you turned up I thought from the op that at last we had another creationist who might give us something worth debating.. Sadly it seems you are just like the rest, constantly evading the issue and unable to support what is said.To make things even worse you (with the post I am addressing) then perform the classic creationist trick of both arguing the scientist not the science AND quoting-mining.I was so hopeful....

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Professor Louis Bounoure, President of the Biologial Society of Strasbourg and Director of the Strasbourg Zoological Museum before becoming Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific research said (rather witheringly):

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"Evolutionism is a fairy-tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless"
(Cited in The Advocate, 8th March 1984. P.17)

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Creationist Lies

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"To postulate that the development and survival of the fittest is entirely a consequence of chance mutations seems to me a hypothesis based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts. These classical evolutionary theories are a gross over-simplification of an immensely and intricate mass of fact and it amazes me that they are swallowed so uncritically

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Evolution is the result of random mutation AND natural selection. An argument that evolution couldn't not happen just by chance is a waste of bandwidth because evolutionists DO NOT claim that evolution happened just by chance.

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(you taking this in Ringo)

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Ringo - like the rest of us is taking in the fact that you will repeat any old crap you find on the net without the faintest clue what you are on about.

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[ones]Imagination must fill up the very wide blanks"
Zoologist, 16: (p.6299)

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Where did Darwin say this and in what context ? (let me give you a clue the letter is from 1857).This is not promising is it? You are 3/3 in regards to all the classic creationist tricks.1 = Making a premise and then asking others to disprove it rather than provide any positive support for it.2 = Arguing the scientist rather than the science3 = Quoting mining - both in giving distorting quotes and some that never actually existed.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:09 PM

With 3 publications - the most recent of which is 12 years ago - he appears to be a lecturer (and I'm sure he does a great job of it) rather than what we would term a professor (A professor generally has a string of publications in A-rated journals and is seen as having made a significant contribution in his field).I don't see which of those 3 papers addresses the issue you have raised - can you identify it for us?

How many have a qualification in an area that would make then qualified to comment on TOE and how many are called Steve?I am reading for a PhD in information sciences - does this make me an expert in other areas? of course it does not.Could you tell me why a dentist is an expert about the TOE?Duane Gish? - A man who purchased his Phd (there is a great site about his "thesis" from someone who saw it) (I don't know some of those areas guys - can we identify which we feel would be experts in this area?)

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*Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
* Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
* Dr James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
* Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
* Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
* Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
* Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
* Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
* Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
* Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
* Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
* Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
* Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
* Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
* Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
* Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
* Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
* Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
* Dr Bob Compton, DVM
* Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
* Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
* Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
* Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
* Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
* Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
* Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
* Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
* Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
* Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
* Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
* Dr Andr Eggen, Geneticist
* Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
* Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
* Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
* Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
* Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
* Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
* Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
* Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
* Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
* Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
* Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
* Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
* Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
* Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
* Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
* Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
* Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
* Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
* Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
* Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
* Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
* Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr Pierre Jerlstrm, Creationist Molecular Biologist
* Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
* Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
* Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
* Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
* Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
* Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
* Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
* Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
* Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
* Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
* Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
* Prof. John Lennox, Mathematics
* Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
* Dr Alan Love, Chemist
* Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
* Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
* Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
* Dr John McEwan, Chemist
* Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
* Dr David Menton, Anatomist
* Dr Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr John Meyer , Physiologist
* Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
* Dr John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
* Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
* Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
* Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
* Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
* Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
* Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
* Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
* Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
* Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
* Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
* Prof. Richard Porter
* Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
* Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
* Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
* Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
* Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
* Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
* Dr Ian Scott, Educator
* Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
* Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
* Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
* Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
* Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
* Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
* Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
* Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
* Dr Andrew Snelling , Geologist
* Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
* Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Prof. James Stark , Assistant Professor of Science Education
* Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
* Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
* Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
* Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
* Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
* Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
* Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
* Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
* Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
* Dr John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
* Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
* Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
* Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
* Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
* Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
* Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
* Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
* Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

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This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:03 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:04 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:08 PM

That's a nice dodge - not one of the better ones I've seen you do but quite good.With this statement, you say:

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The fact that many scientists reject evolution is a fact attested to in writing by scientists.

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Is a dentist a scientist? Will I be a scientist when I get my PhD?BTW - Have you found the papers by your professor yet?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:18 PM

Escape to the future:

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You commit this fallacy if you claim that your worldview will soon prevail because the evidence is in the making - your victory is just round the corner. Pseudosciences do this all the time.

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So have you got the papers from your professor yet?Do you have anything to offer us besides onanism?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:27 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 03:28 PM

Have you got the papers yet?

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certainly did, and quite a few others have as well. There is a botany professor at NC State and quite a few other scientists who have looked at the evidence, and found evolutionism to be wanting.

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Support or retract

Have you got the papers yet?

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certainly did, and quite a few others have as well. There is a botany professor at NC State and quite a few other scientists who have looked at the evidence, and found evolutionism to be wanting.

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Support or retract

No the actual quote is a mix of things said by two different peoplethat's called LYING not "exagerrated" - I know you creationists find the concept different to grasp.

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Yawn. I said there was a botany professor that was a creationist, and you asked for his name, and here it is.

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No you went further than than - you said:

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i certainly did, and quite a few others have as well. There is a botany professor at NC State and quite a few other scientists who have looked at the evidence, and found evolutionism to be wanting.

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Why lie - when it's plain to see for all?I have quite reasonable asked to see the evidence, your reply is the following drivel:

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Heck, you might as well have asked some Jews to join the SS back in the 30s in hopes they could make their case there.

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Moderators: I would ask that Randman be asked to support or Retract his position on this matter.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 04:00 PM

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So you are claiming the NC State botany professor has not looked at the evidence, eh? Gimme a freaking break!

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I have personally sat at a presentation of the evidence, by him, in the 80s, which was quite impressive.

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No, you are just full of crap here buddy because you want to insist the guy publish papers critical of evolution in journals where you and I both know he would be severely persecuted for doing that.

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If you want to find out what he has published and not published, you can do so. That's your business, not mine.

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Obviously, as a long-time tenured professor, he has published, probably in his field though, and not a grant critique of evolution, but who knows? Maybe he has. I doubt a journal controlled by evolutionists would ever admit such am article, and if one did, the editor or editors responsible would likely put their careers in danger.

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I will pay 100 to the charity of choice to anyone who can identity the evidence in the above post. Note: something some claims they saw 20 years is not considered "evidence" - well unless you are a creationist.Why are you wasting our time with this pathetic display? You make yourself like an complete tool.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 04:09 PMThis message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 04:21 PM

Ah I've seen this tactic before - you are trying to push me out of the marketplace.

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You demanded the name of the professor, and I gave it to you, and in fact, his e-mail address.

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Well let's do this properly - we know my name is Charles Knight. What is yours?(I think I know what is going on here - Randman WANTS to be banned to claim a moral victory).Could you quote my lies?This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 30-Jul-2005 04:43 PM

For what? The 100 was for the evidence in the post I quoted as it quite clearly states.Now you present a link for an INVITATION for him to come and present evidence.It appears you are a bit slow in the head:I want to see THE evidence. Do you have a copy of his slides? His presentation notes?