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Author Topic:   Best evidence for Creation
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 1 of 176 (476986)
07-29-2008 9:02 AM


I rarely get involved in the Evo/Creo debate because I don't know enough about evolution to discuss it with any confidence.
As far as creation goes, I have obviously studied the two creation stories in the Book of Genesis, and have studied and taught a range of creation stories from around the world.
What I would like to discuss here is the evidence FOR creation.
When I do read a evo/creo thread, or discuss the topic with 'street-preachers', what they consider to be their best argument is that 'evolution is only a theory', or they might mention 'missing links'. However, this is not the kind of 'evidence' I am looking for, I would like to see evidence FOR creation, and not just evidence against evolution because IF evolution is incorrect this doesn't mean that creation is true.
So, creationists, what do you consider to be the best evidence for creation and why?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 07-29-2008 11:41 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 4 by rueh, posted 07-29-2008 11:54 AM Brian has replied
 Message 6 by bluegenes, posted 07-29-2008 12:45 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 9 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 07-29-2008 7:18 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 14 by jamison, posted 07-30-2008 12:07 AM Brian has replied
 Message 22 by Deftil, posted 07-30-2008 4:21 AM Brian has replied
 Message 29 by Syamsu, posted 07-30-2008 11:18 AM Brian has replied
 Message 134 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 08-23-2008 1:15 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 137 by Open MInd, posted 09-09-2008 3:35 PM Brian has not replied
 Message 166 by Tusko, posted 10-22-2008 3:14 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 176 (477022)
07-29-2008 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by rueh
07-29-2008 11:54 AM


I would..
Hi Reuh,
I would take the Bible as evidence, but we would need to enquire about the reliability of the evidence.
I am the same about evidence for the existence of God, the Bible and the people who believe in God are both evidence for the existence of God, just not very good evidence IMO.
So I would like scientific evidence to support for which ever scripture(s) is/are being presented.
What I don't want is "it was a pig's tooth, so creation is true."
What would be good would be if someone who perhaps suggests that the Judeo/Christian creation myth is true, then they could tell us what we would expect to see in the fossil record, and does the evidence support it.
This is only one angle, I am sure our creo friends must have lots of others.

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 Message 4 by rueh, posted 07-29-2008 11:54 AM rueh has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 27 of 176 (477103)
07-30-2008 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by jamison
07-30-2008 12:07 AM


Hi,
If it was self evident I wouldn't have asked the question.
If it is self evident to you then fine.
Is the identity of the creator also self evident?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by jamison, posted 07-30-2008 12:07 AM jamison has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jamison, posted 07-31-2008 9:00 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 28 of 176 (477107)
07-30-2008 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Deftil
07-30-2008 4:21 AM


I really think faith has to be invoked for one to fully embrace any specific theistic religion.
That's an excellent point and I firmly believe that creationists who present 'evidence' for creation have a WEAK faith.
I think the people who look for things such as Noah's Ark, and other biblical artefacts, have a very weak faith.
Religions require that adherents have faith that what that religion promotes and teaches is true. Looking for evidence to support what a religion claims suggests that the person who takes this approach doesn't have that much faith in their religion.
Remember the hullabaloo over the Ossuary of James the Brother of Jesus? Although ultimately it was a fake, I really don't see what difference it should make to someone's faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour if it was somehow confirmed that the contents did contain the remains of Jesus' bro.

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Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 30 of 176 (477120)
07-30-2008 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Syamsu
07-30-2008 11:18 AM


So you would say that the best evidence for creation is a philosophical argument?

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 Message 29 by Syamsu, posted 07-30-2008 11:18 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Syamsu, posted 07-30-2008 1:09 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 36 of 176 (477140)
07-30-2008 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Syamsu
07-30-2008 1:09 PM


What I was thinking is that in relation to common sense, you have to base common sense on what you know, or what is known.
For example, I haven't accidently cut off a finger, but common sense tells me that if I did accidently cut off my finger there would be lots of blood and it would be painful, because I have had cuts before that have bled and they have been sore.
But as far as creation goes, does common sense really tell us that everything HAS to have been created?
How do we know that we are not applying common sense to a concept that our common sense has no knowledge of on which to base our common sense driven conclusion?

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 Message 31 by Syamsu, posted 07-30-2008 1:09 PM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 77 of 176 (477357)
08-01-2008 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jamison
07-31-2008 9:00 PM


Identity?
Yes, do we know who did the creating?

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 Message 66 by jamison, posted 07-31-2008 9:00 PM jamison has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 87 by jamison, posted 08-02-2008 10:16 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 121 of 176 (477550)
08-04-2008 12:36 PM


The idea behind the OP was for creationsist to present their best evidence for creation, and whatever they think is the best evidence is fine.
One thing that has developed out of this is just how poor the evidence is when wishing to use it to convince others that creation is true.
Maybe creationists should take a step back and realise just how poor their position is scientifically.
So far all we have had are philosophical arguments, most of which are badly flawed.
Is there really a battle between evolution and creation because I can only see one side providing any evidence of any scientific value?

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by obvious Child, posted 08-05-2008 1:04 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 127 of 176 (477582)
08-05-2008 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by obvious Child
08-05-2008 1:04 AM


There is no empirical evidence for creation.
Any idea what the 'creation museum' use for exhibits?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by obvious Child, posted 08-05-2008 1:04 AM obvious Child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by obvious Child, posted 08-06-2008 2:30 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 5065 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 129 of 176 (477584)
08-05-2008 3:37 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by lyx2no
08-04-2008 10:27 PM


Re: I Concede
Brian, I think the best evidence for creationism is the scar I have over my right eye caused by a badly preformed trampoline stunt back in 1972.
Talking about scars, here's an argument against creation.
In 2000 I had the anterior cruciate ligament in me left knee reconstructed by using a length of tendon taken from the middle of the patellar tendon of my left knee, the surgeon said that the new 'ligament' is far stronger than a normal cruciate ligament. So why did God not use the same stuff that patellar tendons are made of to make our cruciates?

This message is a reply to:
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