Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,805 Year: 4,062/9,624 Month: 933/974 Week: 260/286 Day: 21/46 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Investigation of Biblical science errors
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 121 of 138 (132008)
08-09-2004 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Reina
08-09-2004 2:30 PM


definitions of terms?
Please give me some idea of what evidences you are familiar with concerning both facets of evolution (Macro- & Micro-), and what counter-evidences you have found, also for both.
I think you'd have to define what is "macro" and "micro" evolution first. There are slightly used "official" definitions but since macro has been observed based on that definition you need to define what you mean.
I've seen a number of different creationists definitions so we'll have to have yours before we can know what you want.
If you use the word "kinds" in your definition you will have to define what a "kind" is as well. That seems to be generally undefinied in the creationsist community. At least we've never had someone post a useful definition here.
Perhaps you could use this thread to post your definition:
Creationists Cannot Define "Kind".
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 08-09-2004 04:03 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Reina, posted 08-09-2004 2:30 PM Reina has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Reina, posted 08-10-2004 10:20 PM NosyNed has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 129 of 138 (132571)
08-10-2004 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Reina
08-10-2004 10:20 PM


Re: definitions of terms?
My understanding is that "Micro-Evolution" involves adaptations for survival within a species (such as the changes of beak size and shape -- in the Galapagos Finch);
while "Macro-Evolution" refers to the theory that one species might evolve into a totally different species (like a dog becoming a bear, or a lizard turning into an alligator).
That is, as I understand it, the biologists use of the terms. However, the dividing line is lower than your example might suggest. The biologists split between micro and macro is where a speciation occurs. So if the finches accummulate enough differences to stop interbreeding from occuring then that is a case of macro-evolution (even if we can't otherwise tell the difference between the two populations).
With this definition, of course, we have current examples of macro evolution.
The creationist have moved the bar up above the species level. But just where they have moved it too is a bit fuzzy. About family it appears. But then not all the time since they can't have humans grouped with anything else.
Of course, the higher you go the less and less likly it is we will see a "macro" evolutionary event in current times. New genera we have seen. However, once you are up high enough it becomes easier to see the steps of a macro evolutionary change occuring in the fossil record where we are very, very, very unlikely to see a simple speciation event. That is why we have inter class macro evolutionary changes tracked in the fossil record.
A question for anyone: Do we have fossil traces of inter family events? That would connect the two ends; one from fossils and the higher levels and one from current findings at the level of species and genus.
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 08-10-2004 09:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Reina, posted 08-10-2004 10:20 PM Reina has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Reina, posted 08-16-2004 8:08 PM NosyNed has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024