Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   On creationists' beliefs
gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 9 of 59 (3925)
02-09-2002 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by TrueCreation
02-09-2002 12:22 AM


Some of the things you are listing are observations, others are abstract ideas. Why don't you explain these one at a time, and we can pick at them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2002 12:22 AM TrueCreation has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 10 of 59 (3926)
02-09-2002 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by TrueCreation
02-09-2002 12:22 AM


Some of the things you are listing are observations, others are abstract ideas. Why don't you explain these one at a time, and we can pick at them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2002 12:22 AM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2002 9:34 PM gene90 has replied
 Message 12 by gene90, posted 02-09-2002 9:44 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 12 of 59 (3929)
02-09-2002 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by gene90
02-09-2002 9:00 PM


While you're at it, you can explain (1) (a)how the Earth has been blasted with at least 120 asteroid or cometary impacts in <10,000 years, (b)how our ancestors survived it, (c)why we aren't still suffering because of them why some of the craters are more eroded than others (d)why there have been no historical impacts of any significance, ie, why we should, assuming creationists are correct, be acquiring craters miles wide about once every 40 years or so (3a) why there have been four known mass extinctions in Earth's history and (b) how humans survived (c) left no unambigous record of the events (4) (a)if the evolutionist time scale is incorrect why geologists found most of the craters mentioned in (1) in the rock formations previously identified as being oldest even though many were found by accident rather than deliberate search (b)why those were more likely to be more weathered than the craters elsewhere and (c) why these are often buried and only found through gravimetrics and magnetometry (5) (a)why some mountain ranges are weathered stubs of their former glory as inferred from the gravimetric analysis of basement rock and other ranges are enormous and (b) still growing at a rate consistent with the evolutionary timescale and (c)why the Bible doesn't mention mountains being thrust up overnight which is just as well considering the kinds of heat and earthquakes the events would unleash anyway (6) (a)why if the Flood only lasted a hundred and something days there are fossilized coral reefs in Texas (b) how the sediment load didn't wipe out coral and other filter feeders all around the world (c) how the mix of fresh and salt water didn't wipe out most of the biology found in Earth's hydrosphere (7) (a) the absence of evidence that any cultures contemporaneous with Noah were disrupted by the Flood (b) the lack of evidence of genetic bottlenecks in every animal species on Earth (8) the anomalous redistribution of life following the Flood, ie, (a)why every species of desert animal on Earth is not inhabiting the Middle East (b) why the animals of Earth are not all cosmopolitan in distribution (c) who carried the animals to distant habitats with (d)foreknowledge of which animals would best survive there (e) why this is not mentioned in the Bible (9) Why fossil finds are not found sorted by density, ie, a layer of rock under a layer of shells under a layer of heavily cross-bedded coarse sediment under a layer of bones and teeth, under layers of28a)why every species of desert animal on Earth is not inhabiting the Middle East (b) why the animals of Earth are not all cosmopolitan in distribution (c) who carried the animals to distant habitats with (d)foreknowledge of which animals would best survive there (e) why this is not mentioned in the Bible (9) Why fossil finds are not found sorted by density, ie, a layer of rock under a layer of shells under a layer of heavily cross-bedded coarse sediment under a layer of bones and teeth, under layers of silt and ash, under a layer of pollen, containing a layer of partially petrified wood on top, fairly homogenous and stretching over all the continents (10) (a) absence of strained floating debris on high ridges (b) why we don't generally find piles of bones on high ridges (c) why there are no piles of loess deposits "upstream" of mountains
[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-10-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by gene90, posted 02-09-2002 9:00 PM gene90 has not replied

gene90
Member (Idle past 3822 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 13 of 59 (3941)
02-09-2002 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by TrueCreation
02-09-2002 9:34 PM


I spent half an hour on a detailed response of your post but it got devoured by the posting process.
Simply put:
(1) Nobody I know of claims that Saturn's rings are as old as Saturn, general consensus is that they are fairly recent and are short lived. I am comfortable with the claims of AiG on Saturn's rings and see their argument as a strawman.
However your "30 billion years to form" is simply put, a misquote. Please be more careful, it is not an honorable behavior.
(2) Fossilization occurs from the outside in. If you have a high concentration of mineral dissolved in groundwater, the outside will fossilize and seal up the inside, preserving heme and some of the original biologicals. This is rare but I can accept (and expect) that it happens. Strawman argument.
(3) Burial is not required for fossilization because of the anoxic environments in lakes, swamps, and oceans, and landslides are not the only way things get buried in the ocean. (Currents deposit sand.)
The claims that rapid burial is always necessary and that burial requires a landslide are also strawman arguments.
(4) You mis-cited your diamond argument, the link you gave was a discussion of diamonds in the crust, not the length of time it takes to make a diamond. Misreference on your part. AiG mentions three different uniformitarian responses to the finding (itself by uniformitarians).
(5) Oldest tree is not necessarily as old as the Earth. If the oldest tree were 500 years old, would you claim that the Earth was only 500 years old? Of course not, it's silly. Then why do you use a bristlecone pine? Besides, how many other species get that old, and since there are so few even though the world is clearly at least 6k, why does only one species on the planet get that old? Argument non-sequitir.
(6) Stalagmite argument -- too vague for comment.
(7) "New" comets are appearing frequently, from the Oort Cloud, as inferred by their otherwise unexplainable aphelion distances and spherical distribution around the Sun. I know you folks don't like the Oort Cloud because it was inferred from astrophysical measurements rather than direct observation (because comets are so small and dark they cannot be detected from such great distances), but can you explain those aphelia in a better, more coherent, way?
[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-09-2002]
[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-09-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by TrueCreation, posted 02-09-2002 9:34 PM TrueCreation has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024