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Author Topic:   If evolution is wrong, is Creation right?
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 64 (82140)
02-02-2004 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by MPW
02-02-2004 12:48 PM


quote:
Doesn't anyone know what that means? Look in a dictionary. Define any word. When I am typing, I'm using tons of words, why do I have to define THAT one? Every scientist should have a dictionary handy.
Information, they say the dna in one segment of the human body could be written in 40,000 books, as INFORMATION. It contains the stuff the body needs for where to grow what. Why do peoples arms always grow out from their shoulders? Its because of genetic INFORMATION.
Information CAN increase, and models based on DNA have shown this to be true (abstract can be found here.):
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Evolution of biological information.
Schneider TD.
National Cancer Institute, Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center, Laboratory of Experimental and Computational Biology, PO Box B, Frederick, MD 21702-1201, USA. toms@ncifcrf.gov
How do genetic systems gain information by evolutionary processes? Answering this question precisely requires a robust, quantitative measure of information. Fortunately, 50 years ago Claude Shannon defined information as a decrease in the uncertainty of a receiver. For molecular systems, uncertainty is closely related to entropy and hence has clear connections to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. These aspects of information theory have allowed the development of a straightforward and practical method of measuring information in genetic control systems. Here this method is used to observe information gain in the binding sites for an artificial 'protein' in a computer simulation of evolution. The simulation begins with zero information and, as in naturally occurring genetic systems, the information measured in the fully evolved binding sites is close to that needed to locate the sites in the genome. The transition is rapid, demonstrating that information gain can occur by punctuated equilibrium.
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So, there can be information increases in DNA code as your fellow scientist has shown above. We could also talk about new genes being formed (nylon digestion by flavobacterium) and beneficial mutations (new human hemoglobin that confers malarial resistance). However, you may need to brush up on your genetics a bit judging by your inability to define information as it relates to DNA. Simply calling something information does nothing to define information. Information can be derived from non-information carriers. For example, we can derive information from tree rings in a way that can tell us about rain fall in previous seasons. However, tree rings are not in themselves information. What you need to do is show how DNA conveys information and how it is impossible for that information to increase through mutation and natural selection.
As far as new features, some humans are born with tails that bear a likeness to other primate tails. Why is that? There have been chickens that have teeth that are similar to reptilian teeth. Why is that? Through evolution, we see these atavisms (human tails and chicken teeth) as left overs from common ancestors. How does creationism deal with this? We could also go into whale evolution and leg atavisms. You could check out whale evolution on this site. Just to give you an idea of the breadth of information, a little snippet from the above site: "The evidence that whales descended from terrestrial mammals is here divided into nine independent parts: paleontological, morphological, molecular biological, vestigial, embryological, geochemical, paleoenvironmental, paleobiogeographical, and chronological." Lots of information there, so dig in.
I applaud your efforts to wade through the scientific realm. However, you seem to lack an understanding of how science works. To assert something as probable you must first have evidence. You seem to be working from the other side of the equation. You are assuming something to be probable withouth any evidence (creation) and then hand waving away counter-evidence. This is not how science is done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by MPW, posted 02-02-2004 12:48 PM MPW has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 64 (82153)
02-02-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by MPW
02-02-2004 1:51 PM


quote:
Flying sqirrles of course, were created with wings. My opinion, yes. I can't prove it. But you cannot prove that it came from anything else! Evolution is not science.
Science will never be able to PROVE evolution. Science can only raise the probability of evolutionary theories, in other words lower the tentativeness of the theory. This can only be done by observations and actually testing the theory by trying to falsify it. So far, there is nothing that falsifies the theory of evolution and the theory is very successful with its predictions. This is how science works, sorry if you don't like it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by MPW, posted 02-02-2004 1:51 PM MPW has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by MPW, posted 02-02-2004 2:14 PM Loudmouth has not replied

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