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Author Topic:   If evolution is wrong, is Creation right?
MPW
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 64 (82178)
02-02-2004 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ::
02-02-2004 2:37 PM


Wherever a few are selected out of many, information has increased.

I don't know where you got that from, but common sense tells me it doesn't work. You can lose, but never gain. Information NEVER increases without intelligence, period.


Let me ask you this: What would consititute an information addition in the gene code, according to you? How would you measure it? Do you know? I'll suggest refraining from speculation if you don't.

Do YOU know what genetic information is? Do you know what DNA is? Do you know how it works? If you did, you wouldn't need me to tell you how it is measured. Using the same logic, you also have nothing to say about this because you obviously don't know any more.

The 2ndLoT saying nothing of what you first claimed it did. It does not say things are "running down," nor that things are "getting worse." This is the Creationist definition of the 2ndLoT, and as far as physicists know, it is not valid in this universe.

You have just defied one of the most well known and most vigorously tested laws!!!!!!!!!!!! It is VALID! In a closed system, entropy increases! The universe is a closed system, unless you find something outside of it!!!!

If evolution is true, where did the laws of thermodynamics come from anyway?

Why do you believe that it came from anything at all? It seems from our observations that it simply is.

Everything HAS to come from somewhere. Thats a FACT. What you are saying is fantasy.

Some of your other statements were biased and had nothign to do with fact. They were aimed at me, not creation.

Animals can change and vary and adapt but they can NEVER be something else!

Why not? What is to stop a bunch of little changes adding up to big ones with time?

If I begin piling soil in front of you with a shovel, what is to prevent the slowly forming hill from eventually becoming a mountain?

If I begin walking due westward in St. Louis, MO, what's to stop my little 3-foot steps from eventually adding up to hundreds of miles?

The answer to all of these questions is "Nothing." You've conceded that change happens. As a result, information increases. Over time, little changes can add up to big ones. These are the facts, and I suggest you get used to them.

I have already proved this logic faulty in my second post I believe.
It does not add up. THERE IS A LIMIT! Farmers have bred pigs to get bigger and bigger. But given 400000000000000 years, the pigs will never be as big as Teaxas. Yet another example of LIMITS!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ::, posted 02-02-2004 2:37 PM :: has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Eta_Carinae, posted 02-02-2004 3:01 PM MPW has not yet responded

MPW
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 64 (82180)
02-02-2004 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by MrHambre
02-02-2004 2:41 PM


chimpanzees have more chromosomes than humans do. Know why? Because, it seems, a mutation fused one pair long ago in the development of the human genome. These fusions have been observed in other species, too. The creation model can't account for it.

Creation model? God does what he wants! And you said "it seems" thats not a fact.

Common designer? Well, why wouldn't all organisms have identical genomes then?

Again, God does what he feels like.

All I'm saying is that evolution is not scientific?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by MrHambre, posted 02-02-2004 2:41 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 2449 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 63 of 64 (82181)
02-02-2004 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by MPW
02-02-2004 2:53 PM


MPW
Why don't you check out the actual definition of entropy and where the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics come from.

Note that the 2nd Law is about the tendency for entropy increase - this tendency can be delayed such as in the activation energy for chemical reactions.

While you're at it try defining the total energy of the Universe (be it closed or open) - you'll find it is not really possible. Hence it is difficult to apply Thermodynamics to the entire Universe.

Also the laws (as currently stated) do NOT apply to the Big Bang unless you have a quantum theory of gravity. Otherwise it is just speculation.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by MPW, posted 02-02-2004 2:53 PM MPW has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 64 of 64 (82183)
02-02-2004 3:04 PM


Topic turning into pile of misc. debris - temp. closed
As per above title, I think this topic is badly out of control. It probably didn't help that the opening message was a hodge-podge of misc. topics.

Going to close it down, at least for a while.

Comments can be made at your topic of choice, via one of the links listed in my "signature".

Adminnemooseus


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