Discussion of John MacKay's Views

I think it is good that you started out with a personal introduction. Many time creationists come in here and just simply start asserting things and calling people names. In return they usually get called a lot of names back and end up leaving with a bad taste everyone's mouth. That seems to have the effect of hardening a lot of folks who "live" in these parts so I hope you can join the discussion with some thick skin if you care to stick around awhile.Which brings me to a point I want to discuss with you. You said: I think it is important to realize that this is a debate forum. Most people who stick around here do so because they want to challange their beliefs and the beliefs of others. Confrontation is expected and often welcomed. If you do not wish to have your beliefs challanged, then I don't know how comfortable you will be here once you decide to venture out of this introduction thread.If you care to defend a young earth creationist position, people ARE going to call you ignorant. This usually has a negative effect on our creationist peers and visitors but I think it is important for people to have an effective debate to accept this kind of criticism.Most people are ignorant of most things. If the tables are turned an a young earth creationists should call me ignorant, I personally would want to know what I am supposidly ignorant of. Instead a lot of people are offended by that and I think it leads to a lot of cat fighting instead of constructive discussion.So my advice to you would be to come help other people learn what they might be ignorant of and be willing to accept what you might be ignorant of yourself. There are some 'softer' spoken people on this site who are working scientists who have very interesting things to teach if you stick around long enough, ask the right questions, and wade through the inevitable poo flinging that happens on ALL internet forums.I personally have learned more at this forum then I would have ever left to my own devices and opportunites. I hope you will too.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

Yea no problem. You seem like a nice guy/gal.I should also mention now that I am thinking of it. This forum also has a mode where you can debate someone 1 on 1 (called Great Debates) on a particular topic. It can even be scored by moderators or just be casual.The effect of these 1 on 1 debates is that you don't get "pile on". Because the majority of people here are no creationists, what sometimes happens is that a new person like yourself will be overwhelmed with response from as many as 10 people. Some people with a lot of time and stamina can handle and even enjoy that much attention. For some people it can be frustrating.I know RAZD has been chomping at the bit for an opponent. I also enjoy a good 1 on 1 and like to think that I am pretty agreeable although I have been known to say some harsh things when I am frusrated.Pick a topic you want to discuss. ID, the age of the earth, the flood, evolution, religion, morality, etc and invite someone you are interested in having a dialog with. There is nothing technical you need to do. Just start a topic in the PNT forum and request a Great Debate. The moderators will move it to the GD forum and your "opponent" can just join on in.THe other thing to remember is that, even though sometimes this site is very active, it doesn't have to be like a chat room. People may want you to hurry and respond to their posts but I am not alone in saying tha I would rather someone take the time to respond later and have put a lot of thought into their reply than just "shoot from the hip" so to speak.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I think it would be cool if we could organize a standing challange to any "published" creationist to come to an organized online debate.It would be similar to the Hovind $10000 (or whatever) challange to "prove" evolution in that it would have the effect of seeming like a permanent pillar of failure. And if a creationist actually accepts the challange, all the better!A few things would have to be well defined.1. What it means to be an acceptable opponent. I might use the concept of "published" as in "has written something significant about creationism". Not in the sense of peer-review.
2. Define the venue, the access and limitations therof.
3. Define who on the "evo" side would be in the debate. As a commmunity we would need to find someone qualified outside of pick someone from out own ranks who probably is not just an educated layman like myself. {ABE}This sounded confusing. I mean that I am a bad choice. Someone like Mod or cavediver, or Equinox (glancing on the online list){/ABE}
4. Define the rules and expectations of the debate
5. Advertise on peer spaces on the web such as TO, AIC, etc.
6. Directly contact the major creationist organizations. An internet version of nailing the challange to the door of the creation museumEdited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)