EvC Forum: Losing Objectivity

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Topic: Losing Objectivity

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 14 of 28 (603998)
02-09-2011 2:15 PM

Reply to: Message 13 by Stile
02-09-2011 1:50 PM

Re: Keep up your rationality by being... irrational?

Stile writes:

-monitor our pride by double-checking our decisions with other people who also claim to be rational and be open to being wrong

But, this requires other people.

As I see it, it's a mistake to think of objectivity as an individual endeavour. We need other people to tell us we're wrong. We need peer review. We need somebody to point out the speck in our eye even if he has a beam in his own eye.

"Losing objectivity" is mostly about losing humility. The more you know, the more you think you know - but it should be the opposite.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
	Message 13 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 1:50 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 15 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 2:23 PM	ringo has replied
	Message 16 by Blue Jay, posted 02-09-2011 2:35 PM	ringo has seen this message but not replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 17 of 28 (604002)
02-09-2011 2:42 PM

Reply to: Message 15 by Stile
02-09-2011 2:23 PM

Re: Keep up your rationality by being... irrational?

Stile writes:

I only think this merits attention because it's good to have as many ways as possible to battle "losing objectivity." And this is the best way I can think of for doing such internally.

When you're physically ill, you need to recognize that you can't solve the problem by yourself. I'm not convinced that adding techniques for self-medication is a good idea. The more tools you have, the less likely you are to admit that you can't fix it yourself.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
	Message 15 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 2:23 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 18 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:00 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 19 of 28 (604009)
02-09-2011 3:21 PM

Reply to: Message 18 by Stile
02-09-2011 3:00 PM

Re: Keep up your rationality by being... irrational?

Stile writes:

What if you can actually solve the problem by yourself?

How many people die of a brain tumor because it was "just a headache"? Even doctors shouldn't medicate themselves.

Stile writes:

I believe that a certain group of people exist that have enough self-control (in the form of self-honesty) that they can benefit from a personal, self-analysis such the one I discussed.

Every creationist on earth puts himself in that group. I prefer to stay out of that group.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
	Message 18 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:00 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 20 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:39 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 21 of 28 (604017)
02-09-2011 3:50 PM

Reply to: Message 20 by Stile
02-09-2011 3:39 PM

Re: Keep up your rationality by being... irrational?

Stile writes:

I agree with you that the method I'm proposing is A) minimally secondary and B) should be used with the utmost care.

The problem is that the people who are most likely to use your method are the least likely to use it with care. I don't believe in encouraging people to do what they're already doing too much.

Stile writes:

There are people/situations that exist where double-checking with other people is not always an option.

Then you can't expect to be objective in those situations.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
	Message 20 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:39 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 22 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:59 PM		ringo has replied

ringo

Member (Idle past 437 days)

Posts: 20940

From: frozen wasteland

Joined: 03-23-2005

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Message 23 of 28 (604024)
02-09-2011 4:34 PM

Reply to: Message 22 by Stile
02-09-2011 3:59 PM

Re: Keep up your rationality by being... irrational?

Stile writes:

I would argue that the people you're talking about don't care enough to investigate or attempt to understand the method I've described. I think they would just ignore such things all together.

But they think they're already doing it.

You seem to be preaching to the choir. You're saying, "Well done, keep doing what you're doing," but the fellow with his hand in the poor box thinks you're talking to him.

I'm not saying you shouldn't encourage the choir. I'm just saying that the negative effects might outweigh the positive.

"I'm Rory Bellows, I tell you! And I got a lot of corroborating evidence... over here... by the throttle!"

This message is a reply to:
	Message 22 by Stile, posted 02-09-2011 3:59 PM		Stile has seen this message but not replied

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