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Author Topic:   Teleological Science?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 22 of 114 (453039)
02-01-2008 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Cold Foreign Object
01-31-2008 10:28 PM


Re: let's talk straight here
Cold Foreign Object writes:
Many people do not know that both he [Robert Malthus], and subsequently Reverend William Paley, argued that said principle would prevent evolutionary change (references available upon request).
Sure, go ahead, provide references.
IF Randman is attempting to offer a different explanation or better explanation of a fact then he is certainly entitled to do so, whether a evolutionist produced that fact is irrelevant.
I agree, but what Randman does is different. He reads a paper and offers his own interpretation of it, then argues that that was the interpretation intended by the paper's authors. Within a couple posts of trying to explain that that's not what the authors meant Randman will be accusing you of indoctrination, group think and misrepresentation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-31-2008 10:28 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-01-2008 1:11 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 31 of 114 (453170)
02-01-2008 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object
02-01-2008 1:11 PM


Re: let's talk straight here
Thompson in Before Darwin does say that Darwin inverted Malthus, who believed that overproduction of offspring and the struggle for survival precluded change, but Malthus was writing about society, not biology. Malthus was right about society, and Darwin was right about biology. The Gould page seems to be making this point in greater detail.
Perhaps he is being misunderstood. In any case all he needs to do is state clearly that he is offering a different or better explanation or interpretation of said fact.
Agreed. Would that he would do that. What he actually does is argue, at length for pages and pages, that his interpretation is what the authors actually meant, and then after a couple posts the abusive behavior begins.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-01-2008 1:11 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 02-01-2008 4:08 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 103 of 114 (460047)
03-12-2008 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eclogite
03-12-2008 9:51 AM


Re: Can we know?
Eclogite writes:
You are all doubtless correct that eventually, if there is a teleological aspect to the Universe it will be identified. However, I think 'eventually' is a flimsy excuse for objective science to use.
Really? I don't think so. The term "flimsy excuse" is how one would characterize citing intuition and nothing else as the reason for including some premise like teleology within science. Intuition is how many ideas begin in science, but until the objective evidence is sought and found it remains intuition.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eclogite, posted 03-12-2008 9:51 AM Eclogite has not replied

  
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