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Author Topic:   Reasons for Creationist Persistence
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
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Message 118 of 220 (394666)
04-12-2007 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by mjfloresta
04-12-2007 4:59 PM


Re: Adventist Church - Geoscience Research Institute
I would assume that Crash means their personal religious beliefs. Certainly there are Christians who BELEIVE that Christianity mandates a creationist position.
I would add that while there might be a few people who are skeptical of evolution on "scientific" grounds (generally these people would be rightly considered cranks) that is not the same as beleiving in creation which is a religious position. Creationists by definition must believe in creation.
I must admit that to the best of my knowledge most creationists and anti-evolutionists - even those with scientific qualifications - do seem to adopt the religion first and then appeal to "science" as a rationalisation. Jonathan Wells, andJohn Baumgardner are clear examples. Moreover all creationists and ID organisations that I know of seem to be essentially religious in nature (even the supposedly non-religious IDEA clubs began with a rule that only Christians could be officers of the clubs !).

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 Message 117 by mjfloresta, posted 04-12-2007 4:59 PM mjfloresta has replied

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 Message 119 by mjfloresta, posted 04-12-2007 6:03 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 120 of 220 (394672)
04-12-2007 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by mjfloresta
04-12-2007 6:03 PM


Re: Adventist Church - Geoscience Research Institute
quote:
Whoa! Scientific dissenter (one who dissents based on scientific skepticism) = crank? Talk about putting up a hedge of protection around the current theory...
That would be a valid objection if it were put up as a presupposition. As it is a conclusion based on experience you're really quite wrong.
quote:
As to your second point of that paragraph, it seems you are agreeing with me that there is a distinction between skepticism of ToE due to religious motivation and skepticism of ToE due to scientific dissent - not merely a distinction; they are independent causes.
They CAN be. But when the religious commitment comes before the "scientific" objections - and when the objections aren't truly scientific it's pretty hard to avoid the conclusion that the real objections are religious.

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 Message 119 by mjfloresta, posted 04-12-2007 6:03 PM mjfloresta has not replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 136 of 220 (395437)
04-16-2007 2:06 PM


Pride
I think that pride is a major factor in the case of many creationists. They're too proud to actually admit that they might not understand a subject that they haven't investigated in any serious way. To proud to admit that they could be wrong.

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by dwise1, posted 04-17-2007 1:56 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 141 of 220 (395611)
04-17-2007 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by dwise1
04-17-2007 1:56 AM


Re: Pride
Oh, I disagree Creationists tend to have undeservedly high opinions of themselves. And their method of reading the Bible is all too frequently to force the reading into what they want it to say. I think that self comes well ahead of God for many of them.

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 Message 140 by dwise1, posted 04-17-2007 1:56 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by dwise1, posted 04-17-2007 10:43 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 144 of 220 (395706)
04-17-2007 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by dwise1
04-17-2007 10:43 AM


Re: Pride
Or he's too proud to admit that it's BS. This is the guy who threatened the judge trying him on a prison telephone. This is the guy who can't even admit that the plannng laws apply to him.
And even ordinary creationists are often full of pride. There's a fine example posting here.

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 189 of 220 (403154)
06-01-2007 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Taz
05-31-2007 11:29 PM


Re: If I Was A Creationist ...
A lot of people can't figure out Genesis. How many have worked out that Genesis 1:3-5 describe the creation of the day-nght cycle ? How many say it's about the Big Bang instead ? How many have figured out that the Serpent told the truth in Genesis 3:5 - even though it's confirmed in Genesis 3:7 and 3:22 ?

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 Message 188 by Taz, posted 05-31-2007 11:29 PM Taz has replied

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 Message 195 by Taz, posted 06-01-2007 11:30 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 198 of 220 (403470)
06-03-2007 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Taz
06-01-2007 11:30 AM


Re: If I Was A Creationist ...
quote:
Sorry, I have zero ability to interpret allegorical or metaphorical bullshit. Seriously, give me a poem and I'll just stare at it for hours without being able to understand what the author is trying to tell me.
That's a very revealing response. First you say that an 8 year old child can read and understand Genesis. Then when I point out parts of the literal reading that are not commonly understood you go on about how you can't understand "allegorical or metaphorical bullshit".
Seems that it isn't so easy to understand at all.

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 Message 195 by Taz, posted 06-01-2007 11:30 AM Taz has not replied

  
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