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Author Topic:   scientific theories taught as factual
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 295 (440634)
12-13-2007 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by JRTjr
12-13-2007 9:48 PM


Re: differentiating between the observation and the theory
So what mechanism prevents many small, microevolutionary changes from accumulating into a macroevolutionary change?
Here is an analogy.
If I want to walk from my house to the corner, it takes a certain number of steps, and it takes ony a short length of time to complete the journey.
If I want to walk from my house (in New England) to the California coast, it takes many more steps, and it will take quite a lot longer to complete the journey.
In each case, I am doing the same thing; walking.
If you agree that walking the short distance to the corner is possible, then why is walking to the California coast an impossibility?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by JRTjr, posted 12-13-2007 9:48 PM JRTjr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by JRTjr, posted 12-13-2007 11:10 PM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 17 of 295 (440692)
12-14-2007 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by JRTjr
12-13-2007 11:10 PM


Re: differentiating between the observation and the theory
quote:
You have a good point with the walking thing. However, to make the comparison valid you would have to be able to get to the moon by just walking.
Well, taking me off the planet adds a difficulty that isn't required. Evolution doesn't require such a thing, so neither does my analogy.
Given sufficient time and resources, I could certainly walk the equivalent distance from my house to the moon.
Each step is just a step.
Of course, that distance would probably exceed one person's lifetime, but then again, so does the observation of large-scale evolutionary change.
So, what is the mechanism, given sufficient time and resources, which prevents an evolutionary journey analogous to one from my house over a distance equal to that to the moon?
quote:
We see not only variants on a design, but new designs.
Define "new".
Please also show how those new designs are not in any way genetically or morphologically related to any other design.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by JRTjr, posted 12-13-2007 11:10 PM JRTjr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by JRTjr, posted 12-18-2007 7:32 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 36 of 295 (441941)
12-19-2007 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by JRTjr
12-18-2007 7:32 AM


Re: differentiating between the observation and the theory
So, if a transitional species were to exist, what would it be like?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by JRTjr, posted 12-18-2007 7:32 AM JRTjr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by JRTjr, posted 12-23-2007 10:12 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 177 of 295 (447514)
01-09-2008 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Percy
01-09-2008 9:35 AM


quote:
The speculation is that this is because we originally evolved as hunter/gatherers, and that the more sedentary contemporary lifestyles exert tremendous selection pressures.
Cool, I've wondered for years if that wouldn't be a major source of evolutionary change for humans, and now it seems that some people in the know think so.

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 Message 175 by Percy, posted 01-09-2008 9:35 AM Percy has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 268 of 295 (448390)
01-13-2008 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by ICANT
01-10-2008 4:23 PM


Re: Sudden Appearances
quote:
Forgive my stupidity I have been reading about 1000's of partial animal fossils that are microscopic in size that has no bone mass but are perfectly preserved. These fossils are 800+ million years old.
So please forgive me if I am being unreasonable when I would expect that we could find fossils half the size of a man or elephant or dinasour that has bone mass.
You are still suffering from a lack of understanding of how fossilization occurs.
Here's another hint: Why do you think we have found a large number of fossils of bottom-dwelling marine animals like trilobites?
What about their environment was different compared to large, land-dwelling mammals which could affect rates of fossilization?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2008 4:23 PM ICANT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 269 of 295 (448392)
01-13-2008 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by ICANT
01-11-2008 5:09 PM


Re: Sudden Appearances
quote:
All chemicals I know about are liquid.
Wow.
Never heard of Oxygen gas?
I think you have just given us yet another glaring example of the poor state of science education in the US.
Geez, the only Chemistry class I ever took was in the 11th grade over 20 years ago and I despised it, but I managed to retain some minimal knowledge about atoms, molecules, elements, chemicals (solids, liquids, and gasses), and bonds.
At the risk of insulting your intelligence, ICANT, I will just tell you the embarrasingly obvious:
The "Chemicals" that you buy in plastic containers at the hardware store to kill the dandelions in your yard aren't the only kinds of chemicals that exist.
Hint: Think of vitamins and minerals. What are they made of? How does our body use them?
Think of red blood cells. What are they made of? How does our body use them?
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by ICANT, posted 01-11-2008 5:09 PM ICANT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 295 of 295 (448641)
01-14-2008 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Percy
01-14-2008 7:47 AM


Re: Sudden Appearances
quote:
If you're sincere in wanting evidence and would like to give examining that evidence another try then the greatest wealth of evidence presented for evolution is probably in the original book on the subject, Darwin's Origins. It's very readable, and though dry, if it's evidence you're looking for then there isn't a better place. You can find it in any library and most bookstores, and nearby it you'll find a wealth of more contemporary books that also present a lot of evidence.
The entire text of Origin of Species is available for free online here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Percy, posted 01-14-2008 7:47 AM Percy has not replied

  
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