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Author Topic:   Faith
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 3 of 216 (132641)
08-11-2004 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by General Nazort
08-11-2004 12:23 AM


Can you give an example of how an atheist might depend on faith?

The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by General Nazort, posted 08-11-2004 12:23 AM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by General Nazort, posted 08-11-2004 1:56 AM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 08-11-2004 4:03 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 5 of 216 (132676)
08-11-2004 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by General Nazort
08-11-2004 1:56 AM


Ok, let's take reason as an example.
whoever that guy was writes:
We take it on trust. And trust is another word for faith.
I absolutely do not agree that trust is the same thing as faith for obvious reasons. If you can't tell the difference between faith and trust, I have nothing further to say with you, since nothing I can say will make any difference.
GN writes:
You cannot prove reasoning is reasonable without using reason, so you have to take reason on faith. See message #1.
Since I do not think that trust is the same as faith, I do not accept your example as valid.

The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by General Nazort, posted 08-11-2004 1:56 AM General Nazort has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by General Nazort, posted 08-15-2004 6:53 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 11:26 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 8 of 216 (132684)
08-11-2004 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by NosyNed
08-11-2004 4:03 AM


Re: some things
Here is my take on it. You can call something that is reasonable whatever you want, but the reason I accept it is because it has earned my trust.
For example, we can assume that 1 + 1 = 2. It cannot be proven to work each and every time. It is simply a postulate. It is not because of faith that I accept it. I accept it because it has earned my trust. Everytime I have tried to add 1 thing to another, I've always ended up with 2 things.
My question is can you have the same kind of trust in things like miracles? Is there some kind of consistancy in the supposed existence of god that will earn my trust? In other words, if I have cancer now, will I know for certain that god will cure my cancer and sign his name on my forehead saying "cured by god"? By the way, personal evidence (the kinds of evidence that can only be seen or heard by a certain person or persons are usually the result of hallucination) ain't the kind of consistancy that I am looking for.
Trust is different than faith.

The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by NosyNed, posted 08-11-2004 4:03 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by PecosGeorge, posted 08-31-2004 4:28 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 216 (134188)
08-15-2004 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by General Nazort
08-15-2004 6:53 PM


You are playing around with their definitions. You are leaving out the social part with each one, which includes that trust must be earned and faith isn't.
Seriously, would you trust a complete stranger over your brother? Apparently, you have faith in a complete stranger over your brother (I'm talking about god, an angel, a green goblin, and other fairy tale things).

The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by General Nazort, posted 08-15-2004 6:53 PM General Nazort has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 29 of 216 (138434)
08-31-2004 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by riVeRraT
08-31-2004 11:26 AM


It really depends. There are reasons that are baloney and there are reasons that are valid.
For example, I know for sure that when I sit down my chair will not collapse and hurt me. Why? The reason is because it hasn't done it before and as I am jumping up and down on it it seems as solid as ever.
An example of a reason that is baloney is when you drink and drive. I am more than sure that every drunk driver in this world at one time or other thought that he wasn't going to get into an accident because he can drink and drive (I actually heard this argument from someone I know... he thought people should be allowed to drink and drive) without hurting anyone. Would you trust this kind of reasoning?

The Laminator
We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 11:26 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2004 12:12 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
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