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Author Topic:   Bible Cryptids/Dinosaurs?
ringo
Member
Posts: 16637
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 151 of 202 (309557)
05-06-2006 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by arachnophilia
05-05-2006 11:26 PM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
arachnophilia writes:

leviathan IS a dragon.

Yes, and by tradition it might be a real flesh-and-blood animal. My point is that it is not an "ordinary", known animal, like a crocodile. In the story, it has to be "larger-than-life" - of mythic proportions and capabilities, or there isn't much point in mentioning it.


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This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 152 of 202 (309558)
05-06-2006 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by ringo
05-06-2006 12:40 AM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Yes, and by tradition it might be a real flesh-and-blood animal. My point is that it is not an "ordinary", known animal, like a crocodile. In the story, it has to be "larger-than-life" - of mythic proportions and capabilities, or there isn't much point in mentioning it.

quite. and part of that, of course, is by nature exageration.


אָרַח

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 153 of 202 (309641)
05-06-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by arachnophilia
05-05-2006 11:26 PM


thank you Arach
Arachnophilia writes:

To be fair, I think you are being a little over-literal here

Arachnophilia writes:

Also, it's speaking consistently in the singular, as if one individual represents a species

THank you Arach :) It is hard to get that across for some reason. The Wild Ox is mentioned over and over as singular, yet there was an entire species of Aurochs and countless numbers of them in history. Leviathan is mentioned in the same singular sense, yet it HAST to be just one lol. Thank you for the help.

I knew about the tradition of the Leviathan you spoke of. It is very interesting. There is a ancient story that in the end times Behemoth and Leviathan would battle to the death. Their dead flesh would be edible and used for food by the Jews. These are neat traditions and stories.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 154 of 202 (309645)
05-06-2006 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by ringo
05-05-2006 7:01 PM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Ringo writes:

Yes, I know you think unicorns and dragons are real

"Unicorn" as rendered in the Good ol' King James Version (which you seem to LOVE to quote) is better rendered "Wild Ox" which is why more modern and far, far, far better Bible translations render it "wild Ox"

The idea of a species of horse with a horn in it's head is as far as I know not Biologically impossible, nor is a deformity on a Horse that seems to resemble a "horn" is not biologically impossible either (Ripley's "Believe it or not" has a file on a man who was actually growing a horn on the back of his head. Freaky stuff) But until somebody brings forth a fossil or some kind of powerful proof for Unicrons to exist, I will regard it a possible, though not probable.

Plus, the Unicorn might have been partially based on the Rhino, which from what i've heared is somewhat related to horses. So there you go.

As for Dragons: Anybody with a brain would know that Dragons are real animals. Just do research on an animal known as The KOmodo Dragon


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 155 of 202 (309652)
05-06-2006 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by LudoRephaim
05-06-2006 11:41 AM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Also known as the Komodo (island) monitor or generally just Komodo for people with expertise in that area. It has no connection at all with dragons in the mythical sense, so I'm unsure why you'd use it as evidence that "dragons" exist?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by LudoRephaim, posted 05-06-2006 11:41 AM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16637
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 156 of 202 (309656)
05-06-2006 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by LudoRephaim
05-06-2006 11:41 AM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
LudoRephaim writes:

... The KOmodo Dragon....

We also have dragonflies, which are not real dragons. :)

As Arach pointed out, Leviathan was thought of as a dragon by the Hebrews - i.e. a figurative beast, not a real one.


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This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 157 of 202 (309744)
05-06-2006 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by LudoRephaim
05-06-2006 11:41 AM


unicorn?
"Unicorn" as rendered in the Good ol' King James Version (which you seem to LOVE to quote) is better rendered "Wild Ox" which is why more modern and far, far, far better Bible translations render it "wild Ox"

the modern hebrew refers to this unicorn-inspiring animal:

i think this is an example of the modern animal named after the mythological reading. but it certainly is another questionable entry...


אָרַח

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ringo
Member
Posts: 16637
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 158 of 202 (310070)
05-07-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by arachnophilia
05-06-2006 3:51 PM


Re: unicorn?
So God was asking Job if he could tame an oryx?


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 144 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 159 of 202 (310087)
05-07-2006 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by ringo
05-07-2006 6:16 PM


Re: unicorn?
no, i doubt it. an aurox seems like a better candidate.
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 160 of 202 (310254)
05-08-2006 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by CK
05-06-2006 12:08 PM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Charles Knight writes:

It has no connection at all with Dragons of the mythical sense

True, but the name is still used to describe it. We dont call them "Komodos" we call them "Komodo Dragons" and if an mideval European was ever to see one, they would probably call it a dragon as well. It may not breathe fire or fly or sack Castles, but it is called "Komodo Dragon" because it is so friggin big. In a sense, dragons do exist, but as Komodo Dragons, not as creatures of mythology and fairy tales.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 161 of 202 (310256)
05-08-2006 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by ringo
05-06-2006 12:15 PM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Ringo writes:

We als have dragonflies, which are not real dragons

But you seem to miss the wording. It's called a Dragonfly. It is not called a dragon, but the way the wording is used, a fly that is LIKE a dragon. Plus in prehistoric times there where dragonflies so large that they could be jokingly called just "Dragons".

Ringo writes:

A Figurative beast, not a real one.

How do you define figurative? hehehe


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by ringo, posted 05-06-2006 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16637
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 162 of 202 (310334)
05-08-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 9:48 AM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
LudoRephaim writes:

How do you define figurative?

"Figurative", in the context of the Leviathan story, means stylized, exaggerated, etc. to make a point. The point being that Leviathan was no ordinary animal that Job could kill. The point being that Job was nothing compared to God.

If Leviathan was a mere real animal, what's the point?


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by LudoRephaim, posted 05-08-2006 9:48 AM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 163 of 202 (310342)
05-08-2006 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by LudoRephaim
05-08-2006 9:44 AM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Actually we do just call them Komodos and some people call them Komodo monitors.

Plus in prehistoric times there where dragonflies so large that they could be jokingly called just "Dragons".

Like what?

This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-May-2006 03:07 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by LudoRephaim, posted 05-08-2006 9:44 AM LudoRephaim has responded

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 164 of 202 (310383)
05-08-2006 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by CK
05-08-2006 3:00 PM


Re: Why does it have to be real?
Charles Knight writes:

like what?

Meganeura a Dragonfly with a 2.5 feet long wingspan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/meganeura

BTW: Do they also call Komodo Dragons just "giant monitors?"


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3250 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 165 of 202 (310385)
05-08-2006 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by ringo
05-08-2006 2:49 PM


Leviathan
Ringo writes:

If Leviathan was a mere animal, what's the point?

If Job cannot take on a mere animal, how can he take on God?


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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