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Author Topic:   Bible Cryptids/Dinosaurs?
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 181 of 202 (316662)
05-31-2006 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by ringo
05-31-2006 10:48 AM


Re: What's the point?
Ringo writes:

Once again, the tameability of the wild ox is irrevelant.

Actually, IT IS VERY. VERY, VERRYYY Important.it shows that God was not giving a science lesson, but a lesson that ancients like Job could understand! THe Wild Ox is shown to be UNTAMEABLE (the word WILLING mentioned in the text? Let me put it again: WILLING WILLING you have to make the animal willing in order to be able to tame it) The Ostritch is said to be cruel to it's young, which has been shown to be false. Yet the ancients, based on observation, thought so.

Ostritch shown as cruel= they are not cruel!
Aurochs seemed as untameable in text=they where tamed long before Job.
Leviathan shown to be "unkillable"=...fill the blanks for yourself.

I've asked numerous times, yet you Never answered: If the Ostritch is described as cruel, yet is not, and the Aurochs as untameable, yet where tamed, what does that tell you about Leviathan being UNKILLABLE?????

Ringo writes:

Crocodile can be taken on by ordinary men

Can everybody? Did Job know how to? Did the people in his time and area know how to?

Ringo writes:

The Clear implication is that Leviathan is stronger than any man

Hmm, someone needs a little Biology lesson. Crocodiles, as well as alligators, Orangutans, Gorillas, Chimpanzees, Wolves, Bears, Rhinos, Elephants, Hippos, Whales, Lions and Tigers, and gazillions of other animals Are Stronger than Humans. In Relative terms, even Rhino Beetles and Ants are stronger than humans.
Yet Leviathan is a mythical animal because it is stronger than a human? Please state your case clearly? Thank you :D

Ringo writes:

If Leviathan was a Puny Crocodile

Crocodiles can grow to 20 feet long, weigh over 2,000 pounds, and have super strong jaws that crush bone, yet they are puny? LOL!

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by ringo, posted 05-31-2006 10:48 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 05-31-2006 5:47 PM LudoRephaim has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18268
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 182 of 202 (316686)
05-31-2006 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by LudoRephaim
05-31-2006 4:57 PM


Re: What's the point?
LudpRephaim writes:

THe Wild Ox is shown to be UNTAMEABLE (the word WILLING mentioned in the text?

Look at the questions God asks about the wild-ox:

quote:
Job 39:11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? Or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?
Job 39:12 Wilt thou rely on him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather the corn of thy threshing-floor?

He is not describing an animal that is untameable. He is describing an animal that can not be completely trusted, an animal that will always have the animal instincts that God gave him - even if you can tame him.

The Ostritch is said to be cruel to it's young, which has been shown to be false.

So what? The Bible is not scientifically accurate? Big surprize! What does that have to do with the meaning of the Leviathan story?

I've asked numerous times, yet you Never answered: If the Ostritch is described as cruel, yet is not, and the Aurochs as untameable, yet where tamed, what does that tell you about Leviathan being UNKILLABLE?????

I think I have answered that, but I like to repeat myself: I don't see much significance.

The Bible writers were mistaken about the ostrich. So what?

The Bible writers never said the wild-ox was untameable - only that it was not comepletely controllable.

The Bible writers did make it fairly clear that Leviathan was unkillable (and that "Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear"). Leviathan was different from the wild-ox, which is why both stories were told.

Crocodile can be taken on by ordinary men

Can everybody? Did Job know how to?

Doesn't matter if "everybody" can kill a crocodile, as long as somebody can. Doesn't matter if Job knew how to, as long as somebody did.

Did the people in his time and area know how to?

I have shown that some "primitive" people know how to kill crocodiles. It would be up to you to show that the people of Job's time didn't.

Crocodiles, as well as alligators, Orangutans, Gorillas, Chimpanzees, Wolves, Bears, Rhinos, Elephants, Hippos, Whales, Lions and Tigers, and gazillions of other animals Are Stronger than Humans.

Physical strength is irrelevant.

quote:
Whatever happens we have got
the Maxim gun and they have not. (Hillaire Belloc)

Weaponized, we are stronger than all of the above.

Yet Leviathan is a mythical animal because it is stronger than a human? Please state your case clearly?

Stronger than any human. Otherwise the story is meaningless.

Stronger than every human. Otherwise the story is meaningless.

Stronger than any combination of humans, with any array of human weapons. Otherwise the story is meaningless.

And God is even stronger than that.

Clear enough? (I can be even clearer, with effort. :D )

Crocodiles can grow to 20 feet long, weigh over 2,000 pounds, and have super strong jaws that crush bone, yet they are puny?

Very puny. No match for three guys with spears and ropes.

Edited by Ringo, : shpelling


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by LudoRephaim, posted 05-31-2006 4:57 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-05-2006 5:10 PM ringo has responded
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 183 of 202 (318025)
06-05-2006 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
05-31-2006 5:47 PM


ICE BEAR
Ringo writes:

Look at the questions God asks about the Wild Ox:

Lets do so!! But in a better and more modern translation??Updated New American Standard Bible (NASB)??

"Will the Wild Ox consent to serve you, or will he spend the night at your manger?" Job 39:9, Updated NASB

What does the word "Consent" mean in this passage?

Ringo writes:

The Bible writers where mistaken about the Ostritch. So what?

and:

Ringo writes:

So What?

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!! So the Bible writers can be mistaken about the ostritch, but they cant be mistaken about Crocs?? A huge cloud of Croc breath fogging out of it's mouth on a cold morning along with a hiss wouldn't be thought of by the ancients as evidence of fire breathing??

Ringo writes:

Physical strength is irrevelant

Tell that to the late Timothy Treadwell and his late girlfriend, who where both mauled by a huge alaskan Grizzly and had no "spears" or "Guns" to defend themselves. Tell that to the untold thousands of people who have been mauled, dismembered, killed and eaten by animals far stronger than themselves.

Ringo writes:

Weaponized, we are stronger than all of the above

Then you should use a better word, dont 'ya dink?

"Stronger" is a poor word choice. More "Formidable", "Deadliest" or "Lethal" would have been better.

Ringo writes:

Very Puny. No match for three guys with spears and ropes.

L.O.L.

Okay, Crocs puny? tackle a 20 foot 2,500 lb Croc with nothing but your hands! Try to wrestle it and kill it bare handed! We would see who is REALLY puny then.

oh, and the other thing:

Ringo writes:

The Bible writers did make it fairly clearly that Leviathan was unkillable.

Anymore than the dreaded "Ice Bear" of Inuit mythology was said to repel spears and arrows? Oh,...you didn't know that?

Ice Bear: also winter bear, a creature of inuit myth which is said to come out in winter and had coats that where capable of stopping any arrow or spear. Said to come during winter (hence "ice or winter bear")

Reality: Some Brown Bears dont have a good amount of stored fat to stay hibernated during winter and sometimes awake early, still during snow time. Sometimes these bears will find patches of slush or water and get drenched. The water freezes, making the bear covered with ice armor. The mythical "ice Bear" was born (See page 55 of "The Grizzly Almanac" by Robert H. Busch for details on the "Dreaded Ice Bear")

Whatdawehavehere???? A Mythical animalsaid to repel arrows and spears, seemingly unstoppable, unkillable, YET WAS IN REALITY NOTHING MORE THAN A GRIZZLY

If the Ice bear was based on Grizzly bears, maybe Leviathan was based on a Crocodile??

Once again:

If the Bible describes the Ostritch as cruel, yet it is not, and if the Wild Ox is described as untamebale, yet was once tamed, what does that tell you about LEVIATHAN? Maybe God was basing his argument on Job's observation, ie in a way that he and others around him could learn from and understand???

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 05-31-2006 5:47 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by ringo, posted 06-05-2006 9:09 PM LudoRephaim has responded

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 184 of 202 (318053)
06-05-2006 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by ringo
05-31-2006 5:47 PM


oh, Ringo??....
BTW:

http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BCrocodile28.htm

You should find it interesting.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 05-31-2006 5:47 PM ringo has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18268
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 185 of 202 (318140)
06-05-2006 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by LudoRephaim
06-05-2006 5:10 PM


Re: ICE BEAR
LudoRephaim writes:

What does the word "Consent" mean in this passage?

The wild-ox's "consent" is not the issue. You're still ignoring the word "trust":

quote:
Job 39:11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labor to him?
Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?

It doesn't matter whether or not Job could tame the wild-ox. It doesn't matter whether or not the wild-ox "consented" to anything. The point that God was trying to make to Job was that even if the wild-ox did "consent" to do Job's bidding, he would still eat the grain if he got the chance. That's the way God made him and Job could not do anything about that.

So the Bible writers can be mistaken about the ostritch, but they cant be mistaken about Crocs??

You can't just assume that the Bible writers were mistaken about everything. And the ostrich is named in the book of Job - the crocodile is not.

A huge cloud of Croc breath fogging out of it's mouth on a cold morning....

Yeah, those cold-blooded crocs really love the cold weather, don't they? :D If God was trying to emphasize His power compared to Leviathan's, why would He describe a crocodile at one of it's weakest, most sluggish moments? (If I was going to hunt a croc, that's exactly when I would do it - when he's "breathing fire".)

Physical strength is irrevelant

Tell that to the untold thousands of people who have been mauled, dismembered, killed and eaten by animals far stronger than themselves.

Don't be silly. I'm saying that the crocodile's physical strength is irrelevant when confronted by well-armed men. Your "untold thousands" would all have won their battles if they had been armed and ready.

Weaponized, we are stronger than all of the above

Then you should use a better word, dont 'ya dink?

"Stronger" is a poor word choice. More "Formidable", "Deadliest" or "Lethal" would have been better.

Don't take things so literally. "Stronger" is a perfectly apt word to describe weaponized man versus puny croc.

tackle a 20 foot 2,500 lb Croc with nothing but your hands!

That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about man with ALL of his capabilities against a croc with all of his. No contest. Dead croc. God's claims would be empty.

If the Ice bear was based on Grizzly bears, maybe Leviathan was based on a Crocodile??

Yes, the "ice bear" legend is based on a real animal. (Probably a polar bear, not a grizzly - no grizzlies in Inuit country.)

And yes, the descriptions of Leviathan were based on descriptions of real animals. (Probably a whale.)

Notice all the references to fish, fishing and fishermen:

quote:
Job 41:1 (40:25) Canst thou draw out leviathan with a fish-hook?

quote:
Job 41:6 (40:30) Will the bands of fishermen make a banquet of him?

quote:
Job 41:7 (40:31) Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish-spears?

(That's the JPS, by the way. :))

Sounds more like an aquatic creature than an amphibious one, doesn't it? Except for the scales, there's really nothing about it that resembles a crocodile. And little fish have little scales, so the Bible writers can be forgiven for assuming that a really big fish (whale) would have really big, really tough scales.

The desription of Leviathan was probably based on what little they knew about whales, but Leviathan had to be a monster of mythic proportions, or God's comparison to him would be meaningless. (And you still have not addressed that issue.)

(Duelling websites)


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-05-2006 5:10 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 186 of 202 (318407)
06-06-2006 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by ringo
06-05-2006 9:09 PM


Grizzlies and Gorillas!
Here we go again (sigh)

Ringo writes:

The Wild Ox's "Consent" is not the issue. You're still ignoring the word "trust":

You have to Tame a wild Ox before you can even think about trusting it. You're still ignoring the words "willing/consent".

[qs=Ringo]You cant just assume that the Bible writers where mistaken about everything.[qs]

Well, If i did I would not be a Christian now would I lol? I used the wrong word perhaps; I dont believe that the Bible writers where mistaken, but that their observation of the animal kingdom was used by God to prove a point.

Ringo writes:

Yeah those cold blooded Crocs Really love the cold weather, dont they?

Well, it does get cold in that part of asia, and Crocs did live there.

Ringo writes:

Yes the "ice Bear" legend is based on a real animal.(Probably a Polar Bear, not a Grizzly-No Grizzlies in Inuit Country)

Um, hate to burst your bubble, but Brown bears actually do live in Inuit country. Inuit's live on upper alaskan and canadian coasts, and Brown Bear habitat is even there (Page 15 of Robert H. Busch's "The Grizzly Almanac", pages 4-5 of "Bear Aware:THe Quick Reference bear country survival guide", second edition by Bill Schneider,Pages 46-47 of "Bears" bi Ian Stirling Ph.d, Page 128 of "Bears of the World" by Lance Craighead, and pages 192-193 of "Smithsonian Institution: Animal" by Don E. Wilson and David.)

see also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit

Ringo writes:

That's the JPS by the way

I have a JPS ("THe Jewish Study Bible")and it does not have the strikingly king James/archaic wording(unless it is a NJPS, which it does not say) It is also odd that your verse quote ala Job 41:7 is word-for-word identical with the KJV rendering.

Ringo writes:

Leviathan had to be a monster of mythic poportions, or God's comparison to him would be meaningless

Actually, there are several real animals past and present that you can make that comparison with.

Silverback Gorillas watch over their family (mates and offspring)like a hawk, and pitty on your butt if you try to kill or hurt them. Gorillas are not omnipotent or unkillable, but like God they watch over their loved ones, and give wrath to those who threaten them. God can compare himself to animals in certain ways.

And lets not forget that EVEN MYTHOLOGICAL MONSTERS ARE NOT ALWAYS UNKILLABLE

Nemean lion? Chimera? Minotaur? Medusa? Dragons? Vampires? Giants? All creatures of myth and folklore that could be killed.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by ringo, posted 06-05-2006 9:09 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 6:16 PM LudoRephaim has responded
 Message 189 by ringo, posted 06-06-2006 7:15 PM LudoRephaim has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 187 of 202 (318412)
06-06-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by LudoRephaim
06-06-2006 6:05 PM


I have a JPS ("THe Jewish Study Bible")and it does not have the strikingly king James/archaic wording(unless it is a NJPS, which it does not say)

there are indeed two versions of the jps, and ringo happens to be using the older one. i'm not aware of the newer one being free on the web anywhere. i much prefer the newer one.

It is also odd that your verse quote ala Job 41:7 is word-for-word identical with the KJV rendering.

that is odd. the older jps does in fact match the kjv here.

And lets not forget that EVEN MYTHOLOGICAL MONSTERS ARE NOT ALWAYS UNKILLABLE

but can you name a non-mythological animal that is unkillable?


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-06-2006 6:05 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-07-2006 5:58 PM arachnophilia has responded

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 188 of 202 (318414)
06-06-2006 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by ringo
06-05-2006 9:09 PM


duelling websites
Your source was amazing. You used a source that was creationist like mine, but with a list of sources that was mostly made up of Creationist sites, while mine had many sources to secular science works. Your's also promoted the "giant human tracks" at the Paluxy Riverbed in Gleen Rose TX. Answersingenesis even considers that to be bogus. And the site seems to have mistaken the weight of Tyrannosaurus Rex. (5-7 tons, not 30!!!!!)
Your site also concludes that good ol' T rex was Leviathan. Leviathan a real animal, not a beast of Mythology. And it also says that the Croc's hide is tough enough to stop spears.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by ringo, posted 06-05-2006 9:09 PM ringo has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18268
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 189 of 202 (318427)
06-06-2006 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by LudoRephaim
06-06-2006 6:05 PM


Re: Grizzlies and Gorillas!
LudoRephaim writes:

You have to Tame a wild Ox before you can even think about trusting it.

But God did talk about trusting the wild-ox, so He must have taken for granted that it was tameable. I'll say it again: the ox's consent is not the important issue. The important issue is can you TRUST him? Address the issue of trust.

Um, hate to burst your bubble, but Brown bears actually do live in Inuit country.

Don't worry, my "bubble" isn't burst. :) I don't have access to the books you cited and the Wikipedia article doesn't mention brown bears, so... I'm standing by my statement until I see some evidence: brown bears do not live in Inuit country.

(And even if you can produce that evidence, the polar bear is still the most common bear known to the Inuit people.)

And lets not forget that EVEN MYTHOLOGICAL MONSTERS ARE NOT ALWAYS UNKILLABLE

And of course, I never said that - I said that Leviathan was unkillable.

Your source was amazing.

I'm glad you liked it. :) I picked it at random to show that you can find any kind of crap on the Internet. If you find a site that claims Leviathan was a crocodile, I can find one that says he was a T. Rex - which makes a certain amount of sense, by the way.

Leviathan a real animal, not a beast of Mythology.

So you say, but you haven't shown it. In any case, a crocodile is pretty unlikely - too easy to kill.

I'm still waiting for an answer to the question: Why would God compare His power to a puny creature like a crocodile? Why would God brag about being more powerful than a creature that can easily be killed by man?

I'm also waiting for an answer to the question: Why would the Bible writers use so much fish/fishing imagery if they were talking about a crocodile? If you can set aside your crocodile fixation for a moment, doesn't the story just sound more like a sea monster?


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-06-2006 6:05 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 190 of 202 (318845)
06-07-2006 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by ringo
06-06-2006 7:15 PM


Bubble bursted
Ringo writes:

Brown Bears do not live in inuit country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Bear

Look at the inuit wikipedia article again, compare both maps on them. What does that tell you??

BTW: Polar Bears cannot have an armor of ice on their coats from freezing water: their coat make it impossible (See links to wikipedia Polar bear section, and read about their fur.)

Sorry: you're are WRONG.

Ringo writes:

Puny Creature like a Croc

That is not worth the response.

Ringo writes:

Dont have acess to the books you cited...so...Im standing by my statement until I see some evidence

You have acess to those books at your local GIant Bookstore (or one in the nearest city or large town) as well as ordering on dah internet. If you take that counter to my position (I dont have those sources. I wont believe 'em!!!) then Why should I debate this with you?

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : get the whole MESSAGE Across.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : get the whole MESSAGE Across.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by ringo, posted 06-06-2006 7:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by ringo, posted 06-07-2006 6:14 PM LudoRephaim has responded

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 191 of 202 (318861)
06-07-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by arachnophilia
06-06-2006 6:16 PM


Hey Mr Philia
Hey Arachnophilia :)

Arachnophilia writes:

But can you think of a non-Mythical animal that is unkillable?

Good question.

By unkillable as in "no-way-no-how-nuthin-not-even-buckshot-tanks-Dr Strangelove-Nukes-Andre-the-Giant-will slay it", no. But then again there where times when certain animals could not be killed by man (Whales where just to large for Homo Egaster to kill)so in that sense, any meag-sized sea animal was "Unkillable"

And since we have a theological slant: Since God is omnipotent (Job confesses it in chapter 42)Nothing really is "Unkillable".

To my knowledge, even mythical beasts that where "unkillable" could be slain by a deity (Zeus and Typhon)

The Teumussian vixen or fox (probably not spelt right :( was in Greek myth a giant fox that was magically "Unchatchable" but even the gods could slay it (see wikipedia article on this creature for details)


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 6:16 PM arachnophilia has responded

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 522 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 192 of 202 (318865)
06-07-2006 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by LudoRephaim
06-07-2006 5:58 PM


"unkillable"
By unkillable as in "no-way-no-how-nuthin-not-even-buckshot-tanks-Dr Strangelove-Nukes-Andre-the-Giant-will slay it", no. But then again there where times when certain animals could not be killed by man (Whales where just to large for Homo Egaster to kill)so in that sense, any meag-sized sea animal was "Unkillable"

ok, well let's define this reasonably. let's say that killing it would be so far removed from the realm of human ability at the time, that we could say it was unkillable. "human ability" at the time of job includes the use of armies, metal to make spears and swords, the technology to make giant seige weapons (apparently), etc. we're talking about something that cannot be brought down by a few hundred armed men that had the technology to bring down walled cities.

And since we have a theological slant: Since God is omnipotent (Job confesses it in chapter 42)Nothing really is "Unkillable".

To my knowledge, even mythical beasts that where "unkillable" could be slain by a deity (Zeus and Typhon)

yes, well, not to be crass, but that's kind of the point. it's unkillable by man, but not by god.

Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18268
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 193 of 202 (318869)
06-07-2006 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by LudoRephaim
06-07-2006 5:38 PM


LudoRephaim writes:

Brown Bears do not live in inuit country

Look at the inuit wikipedia article again, compare both maps on them. What does that tell you??

Sorry: you're are WRONG.

*shrug* It wouldn't be the first time. :) My heart won't break and my bubble will be fine.

And it does nothing for your argument that Leviathan was a crocodile.

Puny Creature like a Croc

That is not worth the response.

And yet you have been responding to it for more than a month now. :)

Like it or not, a crocodile is a puny creature when confronted by heavily-armed men. Leviathan could not be a cocodile.

If you take that counter to my position (I dont have those sources. I wont believe 'em!!!)....

This is a science forum. You are expected to provide evidence that is accessible - not just to me but to anybody else who might be reading the thread. It is thoroughly unreasonable to expect us to go out and buy books to confirm your claim - which is already off-topic in a mostly off-topic thread.

The essence of science is: No, I don't believe it until I see the evidence.

... then Why should I debate this with you?

Not to burst your bubble, but I couldn't care less whether you continue the debate or not.

It should be pretty plain to anybody reading this thread that Leviathan was a mythical beast. If you want to withdraw and concede that point, I wish you the best in your future endeavors. :)

Edited by Ringo, : spell-czech malfunction.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-07-2006 5:38 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-10-2006 5:56 PM ringo has responded

  
LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 3628 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 194 of 202 (320073)
06-10-2006 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by ringo
06-07-2006 6:14 PM


Ringo writes:

A Crocodile is a puny creature when confronted by heavily armed men.

Well, you could say the same about human "monsters". 6'10 525 lb Andre the Giant (wrestler) would seem "Puny" by your standards because he could be easily killed by "Heavily armed men".

Heck, a little 90-lb weakling can say that about a 500 lb wrestler if he shot him.

weak guy: Oh andre is Puny! I'm nowhere near as strong, large or frightening, Yet he cant stand up to several guys with tommy Guns!!! THATS PUNY

If this wuss went to fight people of that size (Paul wight, aka "The Big Show" 7 ft tall, 500 lbs. Dalip Singh, aka "The Great Khali" 7ft 3 ich tall, 425 lbs, all WWE wrestlers)with a shotgun and they had only their fists, you could kill them and say THEIR PUNY!!

Yet if the wuss where not cowardly enough to hide behind a gun to fight'em, they'd knock him to china and back.

BTW: You dont want to buy the books? Just find them at your local bookstore and look through 'em. You can do that without buying them. You have acess without need of buying.

besides their great reads :)

I wont concede your point. I just choose to agree to disagree. We aint gonna convince each other, and i'm tired of this debate.

peace

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

Edited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.


"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by ringo, posted 06-07-2006 6:14 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 06-10-2006 6:31 PM LudoRephaim has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18268
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 195 of 202 (320096)
06-10-2006 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by LudoRephaim
06-10-2006 5:56 PM


LudoRephaim writes:

6'10 525 lb Andre the Giant (wrestler) would seem "Puny" by your standards because he could be easily killed by "Heavily armed men".

Heck, a little 90-lb weakling can say that about a 500 lb wrestler if he shot him.

Yup. Job was a 90-lb weakling and a croc would be like a 500-lb wrestler - easily killed. (And Andre the Giant is dead, isn't he? Unlike Leviathan. ;) )

Yet he cant stand up to several guys with tommy Guns!!! THATS PUNY

Exactly. Now you're getting it. Strength and puniness depends on all factors - weapons, etc. - not just a few cherry-picked features like big teeth and scaly backs.

Yet if the wuss where not cowardly enough to hide behind a gun to fight'em, they'd knock him to china and back.

We are not in any way, shape or form talking about bravery or cowardice. We are talking about capability. The smallest, weakest coward on earth can still kill the biggest, strongest bravest croc on earth, if he's properly armed.

Bye bye croc. Hello Leviathan. :D


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-10-2006 5:56 PM LudoRephaim has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by LudoRephaim, posted 03-02-2007 11:07 AM ringo has responded

  
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