Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,422 Year: 3,679/9,624 Month: 550/974 Week: 163/276 Day: 3/34 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Could life evolve in the vacuum of outer space?
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 8 of 29 (512420)
06-17-2009 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by howdoideletethis
06-17-2009 4:59 PM


But as you can clearly see in the film the objects aren't behaving under natural gravitational laws. Either they should look still, or they should be moving in an almost linear motion. And in either instance they shouldn't accelerate unless it's towards the earth and they most definitely should not have such dramatic curves or angles (unless of course ALL of those curving and accelerating objects were struck by some outside force). But like I said, the video isn't important, just food for thought.
Okay, so "life" might not evolve in space, and when I say life I'm talking about the general definition of plants and animals, not anything too specific. But would some other type of being, possibly energetic, form in space? Definite energy with a conscience? Possibly using more that just 4 dimensions like "life" here on our earth, which would help to explain why the energy doesn't appear as simply light?
To be honest I'm not trying to prove anything, I really just enjoy listening to everyone's thoughts. So try not to be too critical guys, I enjoy having only one anus.
Honestly, the idea of an "energy being" is nothing mroe than an absurdity popularized by the like of Star Trek. I tend to be cautious about ruling something "utterly impossible," but with this concept it's close enough to call the notion laughable.
Conscious energy? Energy is not a "stuff" in the same way that matter is; what sort of energy would this sort of "being" be composed of? This is the worst sort of speculation - by what sort of mechanism would an "energy being" hold itself together? How would we recognize it? To me it sounds like nothing more than a fundamental misunderstanding of what energy is.
Energy is the potential to do work. Light it not energy, though it has energy. A rock held up high is not energy, but it has potential energy. When dropped, that rock will fall and strike the ground, converting kinetic energy from teh fall into sound and heat (and the sound eventually converts into heat as well). A photon emitted by the Sun will travel in a straight line until it collides with something else, at which point its energy will also be converted into heat.
By what mechanism would you propose that an entity, conscious or not, could be comprised solely of the potential to do work?
Remember, we are "energy beings" as much as we are "material." That says absolutely nothing of magic nonsense like "souls" or "consciousness;" the fact is simply that our physical bodies process and use energy constantly. The entire issue of "energy beings" vs "physical entities" is nothing more than science fiction - occasionally entertaining, but not grounded in even an ounce of fact.
So is it possible? Again, I dislike making solid statements of what is or is not possible - the Universe tends to surprise us frequently. But the concept of an "energy being" quite frankly doesn't even begin to make sense given what energy actually is.
As for your video...well, I can't watch it at the moment, since I;m at work. But 99,999 times out of 100,000, there's a conventional explanation for what at first appears to be extraordinary phenomenon. Jumping to wild speculation on the level of "things from dimension x!" or "energy beings" is roughly as accurate as the opinion of a 3-year-old on the equivalence of energy and matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-17-2009 4:59 PM howdoideletethis has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.2


Message 25 of 29 (512528)
06-18-2009 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by howdoideletethis
06-18-2009 2:47 PM


Re: Bad Attitude Control
Yes, I do have better things to do, seeing as this is only my fourth post, unlike you're 700+ (no telling how many are useless replies).
And yes RAZD, It could be because of the point of view, but apparently you didn't watch the video. Things wouldn't appear to instantly reverse directions on the surface of the earth. It might curve, or hook, but not completely reverse and travel backwards on it's path.
And if you really want to focus on my anus, RAZD, you can send me a message. I get the feeling these forums are more for degradation than discussion.
That is a good way to think of it onifre. And if it took billions of years to create something as intricate as the human species, think of the potential of billions of more years of universal existence. Of course, the sun will slowly die and eat everything in its way, but I'm sure human kind will find a way to preserve life what with technology growing at an exponential rate. Those first single celled guys probably thought "Whoa, we're the only things existing thing here. This is pretty impressive. Things couldn't possibly get any more crazy than this!" And now look.
But pardon me, single cells didn't know the English language then and probably weren't even aware they were the first and they probably didn't have much of a thought process. Sorry for that completely useless analogy, I'm just a moron.
EVCForum is not an outlet for degradation - it's a debate forum. The adversarial nature of debate, combined with the anonymity and communication barrier of text on the internet occasionally results in unintentional offense.
Your post attracted a decent amount of incredulity simply because of the subject matter - "energy beings" are exclusively the realm of fantasy (including both science fiction and religion), not observed reality. There is no reason to suggest that such things could exist, and in fact based on the physics definition of "energy" the term simply makes no sense. Entities composed of high-energy particles would make more sense, but would still be so improbable as to justify immediate dismissal pending an observational reason to think they may exist or a mechanism that would allow their formation.
If you found some of the responses to be personally offensive, my best advice would be to simply not take it personally, and ask why those posters responded the way they did. After all, appealing to personal incredulity is a logical fallacy (as opposed to providing a reason for an incredulous response).
You also brought up a YouTube video showing moving objects that you are unable to personally identify. This caused you to break off into what can most accurately be described as unjustified wild speculation - your response to the unknown was to use your imagination. This is the same basic human behavior that led ancient cultures to speculate that lightning was caused by Thor's hammer, and that the Sun was the golden wheel of Apollo's flying chariot. It seems to be a near-universal tendancy in humanity to attempt to explain what we don't understand, even when our explanations have no basis in reality. Pointing that out should not be personally offensive to you - rather, it shoudl remind of one of the many pitfalls inherant in the human thought process. It's no different from any other myriad flaws in human reasoning - pre-existing bias, confirmation bias, false pattern recognition, wishful thinking...the list is long, and we;re all guilty of them from time to time. The trick is to recognize them and try to eliminate them when possible. It's a very large part of the reason the scientific method involved independant confirmation and peer review - even the smartest of people can come to false conclusions based on fallacious reasoning and bias.
If at any point my responses to you have been overly acidic, then I apologize.
As to your core question though, as to whether life could form in space without being on a comet or an asteroid or other body...
That's very difficult to answer, but all evidence I'm aware of points to "not likely." We've barely touched the surface of abiogenesis research, so it's difficult to really pinpoint how life could plausibly form in space. More reasonable explanations for life existing in space would be volcanic eruptions that launch rock into space, possibly carrying living organisms with it (assuming they survive the trip!). But without a body to exist on, actual vacuum-inhabiting organisms are just this side of impossible. Space is just too empty - living things require food of some sort, some form of input of matter to allow growth and reproduction in addition to whatever form of energy they use. Take aplant for example. Photosynthesis is along the lines of what you'd look for in direct energy absorption...but the plant still requires CO2 and other compounds in order to actually photosynthesize, let alone what it needs to add mass and grow and reproduce. The density of molecules in space is extremely low - it makes our air look as dense as diamond in comparison. Most of the molecules found in space are nothing but H2 molecules, with some H2O thrown in. Free-floating organic compounds with the required Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Carbon are far more rare. Frankly, any organism that bears any semblance to the forms of life we've seen so far would simply starve, or be completely dormant while in space. If such a thing were discovered, "unbelievably shocked" would be an understatement for my reaction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by howdoideletethis, posted 06-18-2009 2:47 PM howdoideletethis has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024