Equating science with faith

I'm quite sure no one will touch any of your cosmological inquiries with a ten foot pole, not after you blew out a whole thread with them. Your mind block on this issue *is* very puzzling, though.You've posted a number of informed and insightful messages recently, and then in stark contrast there's this cosmological issue. The next time it comes up in proper context you might acknowledging to yourself that so many people throwing up their hands at you means there *is* something wrong with your thinking and try to find the flaw. If you're correct then it eventually will out, but asking the same dumb question over and over and over and over again and again and again and again in nearly complete disregard to the provided answers is pretty much guaranteed to get you nowhere. Not just on this topic but on any topic. If you enumerate the ways in which questions can be constructively approached, the way you're approaching this one is definitely not anywhere on the list.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

The posting restriction was put in place not so that you could pop back every 30 minutes to contribute another poorly thought out post, but so that you could spend the 30 minutes constructing a post of quality that contributes constructively and helps move the discussion forward.Posting a message that is predominately cut-n-paste doesn't achieve this goal, plus it is against the Forum Guidelines. If you don't want your posting constraint boosted to 60 minutes I suggest you spend your time more constructively. The constraint can be set to a maximum of 65535 minutes, which is one and a half months.Please, no replies to this message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Tesla,Add to your problems the inability to follow instructions. When I say no replies I mean it. See you in a week.The bottom line is that if you do not conform to the Forum Guidelines as enforced by the moderators then you'll be subject to any of a variety of enforcement options. Maybe this board isn't for you. There are plenty of other boards out there.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi ICANT,Busy day, I wanted to post this earlier but didn't have time.If you'd like to begin another thread to further explore your concerns about scientific views about the early universe then please propose a new thread. There is nothing wrong with further discussion of this issue, but you can't keep raising this same issue in threads only peripherally related, so please do not raise this issue in other threads anymore. Limit its discussion to a thread designated for that purpose.As far as this thread goes, you shouldn't have any trouble finding other examples to make your point about the role of faith in science.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Beretta,We try to discourage the posting of many quick, short chat-style messages. There's a chat room for this type of style. I've placed you on a 15-minute minimum per message. You'll have to wait 15 minutes between posting one message and the next.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Please do not try to tackle moderation issues yourself. If you're encountering a problem please post to the Windsor castle thread.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Beretta,You can still type your messages into a word processing tool, then cut-n-paste them later.Threads close after about 300 messages. Moderators are trying to discourage practices like reading through a thread and responding to many messages. We're trying to encourage members to consolidate responses into one or a very few messages. Naturally there are other concerns, too, such as staying focused on the topic and keeping discussion constructive, that also factor into decisions about whether some enforcement alternative is required and which one.I'd be glad to lift the restriction completely if things go well for a while.Please, no responses to this message.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Hi Beretta,You'll likely feel you're being unfairly singled out, but that can't be helped. When fighting fires one attacks the biggest blaze first, and you're it.I'm upping your minutes-between-posts to 30. I want to see much, much less (like none) of these kind of contributions from anyone.From Obvious Child in the message you replied to: From you in your reply: Evidence, argument and rebuttal, evidence, argument and rebuttal, over and over again, that's all I want to see. Sounds boring, I know, but focusing on substance is how we encourage those with other proclivities to move on.No replies, please.Edited by Admin, : Added "no replies" request.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I suggest you read Granny Magda's Message 150 again. I couldn't have said it better myself.If you want to attack evolution you're more than free to do that, but please do it in a thread about evolution. If you'd like to argue that science is actually faith-based, then please go ahead by all means, but with evidence, argument and rebuttal. You're even free to use evolution as an example of faith-based science, as long as you keep in mind that evolution isn't the topic.Also, I'll be clamping down on bald, unsupported assertions, no matter from who.It occurs to me now that since you were gone for a while you probably don't know that EvC Forum went through a major sea change back in January. There are many fewer moderators, and moderation is now much more strict and by the book.Please, no replies.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

It's been requested a couple times now that you leave moderation issues to the moderators and keep discussion civil. We'll see you tomorrow.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Two things.First...you have to wait 30 minutes between posts and you waste it on a one sentence message? One would think you'd elaborate at least a little on your interpretation of the geologic record. I said I'd be cracking down on bald unsupported assertions and this is it. Please don't do this any more.Second, I've been saying this as Percy hoping you would pick up the hint, but no such luck, so here I am as Admin to state to you in no uncertain terms that you are off-topic in this thread. Either clarify how your position is on-topic, or find a thread where your line of argument would be on-topic, or propose a new thread over at [forum=-25].I haven't been shy about stating what I want here at EvC Forum. Evidence, argument and rebuttal. Civility (because incivility derails discussion). And last but not least, focus on the topic. In your short time back you've violated all three more than once and you're still not suspended, but this is the last warning.Nobody has ever been suspended at EvC Forum for their position. Without people with contrary opinions there would be no discussion, and discussion is what boards like this are all about. But we want *constructive* discussion here, discussion that actually gets somewhere. Those who participate persistently in a manner contrary to this goal will be suspended, for short periods at first, then for longer and longer periods of time until it becomes permanent. Rob is currently serving a 4-week suspension for persistently posting sermonettes, incoherent arguments and uncivil comments in the science forums, his next suspension will be permanent. You seem to have the same persistence in posting any way you feel like posting, so I just want to inform you that I can put you on the fast track out of here if that's what you wish.Please, no replies.Edited by Admin, : Grammar.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I've been asking Beretta to tone it down a bit, and I think he has. I can see you two have been over this ground before, but this is the first time you two have squared off in this thread. I've already put out notice that discussion will be dispassionate and civil or I will be handing out suspensions, and now I'm saying it again.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Message/minute limit restriction removed.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I haven't caught up with this thread yet today, but will within an hour or so. In the meantime I'm putting a strict off-topic quarantine on this thread. Do not post any off-topic discussion. If you post some off-topic discussion after this post but before seeing it, go back and edit your post now before I find it. Penalty is a 24 hour suspension.This is, of course, mostly directed at Beretta. While contributing as Percy I thought I could influence him to stay on topic, and I posted short discussion in many of my recent posts that would begin something like, "This is off-topic, but...", and would end something like, "If you'd like to discuss this in more detail you should propose a new thread."Beretta is taking none of the hints, so now this thread is going full-stop on off-topic discussion. I'm applying this equally to everyone, sorry.This thread is for discussing whether science is faith-based in a manner similar to religion. Discussing anything else, particularly evolution and radiometric dating except to employ them as examples (and if you can't tell the difference that's your problem), will draw a suspension.No replies, please.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

As I said in my previous post, I haven't caught up with this thread yet today, but I want to say this now.I'm not going to let someone who has to be closely monitored as to topic have free rein on the site. We have a number of enforcement options, and you've experienced one already when I limited your message rate. If this is going to be a constant thing with you of not staying on-topic then you may as well voluntarily cease participating, because you'll soon be permanently suspended anyway.I can't get any more clear than that.Randman received the same warning recently. I believe I suspended him several times, longer each time, and on his latest return he has stayed on-topic.Rob received a 4-week suspension for posting sermons for the umpteenth time in a science debate, then had another member post for him. Both were suspended permanently.This isn't braggadocio, I'm just trying to convince you I'm serious about this so that you modify your behavior, because we'd like to keep you around, which won't happen if you can't stay on-topic.Please, no replies.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director