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Author Topic:   People Don't Know What Creation Science Is
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 336 (501449)
03-06-2009 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Kelly
03-06-2009 10:10 AM


Re: Ask yourself...
The creation model predicts--by its very nature of what creation is--that life appeared suddenly and fully formed
and how does that not violate the second law of thermodynamics!?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 10:10 AM Kelly has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 197 of 336 (501450)
03-06-2009 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Kelly
03-06-2009 10:43 AM


Re: That's not true...
Specifically, the second law of thermodynamics is the mechanism that makes macroevolution impossible.
It makes the emergence of fully formed species impossible, why don't you see that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 10:43 AM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 11:34 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 336 (501470)
03-06-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Kelly
03-06-2009 11:34 AM


Re: That depends on what caused life, though
That depends on what caused life, though
Really!? How? The law is the law regardless.
Creationists believe that the evidence reveals that life cannot be explianed in terms of continuing natural processes but that some things must be attributed to completed processes that are no longer continuing. In this respect, both models simply need to address life as it continues under their respective models. In this regard, the laws of thermodynamics are only a problem for the evolutionists.
But the idea that creatures emerged fully formed violates the second law of thermodynamics, so creationism is impossible to begin with.
We see from the fossil record that creatures have emerged relatively recently so when did this process stop?
processes that are no longer continuing.
Wait, what happened to the law of conservation!?

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 Message 202 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 11:34 AM Kelly has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 215 of 336 (501472)
03-06-2009 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Kelly
03-06-2009 11:54 AM


Re: Creationists would disagree with this too
All you get when radiation mutates a gene is just a varied form of what already existed. This process cannot change anything into something fundamentally different.
How do you know that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 11:54 AM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 12:15 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 336 (501483)
03-06-2009 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Kelly
03-06-2009 12:27 PM


How does creationism not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 12:27 PM Kelly has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 336 (501486)
03-06-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Kelly
03-06-2009 12:32 PM


Re: You seem mad
I think I have done a fairly good job at trying to express how it is that creation science is a scientific study of the evidence just as evolution is
The thing is, you haven't done that at all!
To do that you owuld have to outline the theory, the evidence that supports it and the predictions it makes. We have nothing like that from you.

How does creationism not violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 12:32 PM Kelly has not replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 336 (501504)
03-06-2009 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Kelly
03-06-2009 1:44 PM


Re: I already have defended my point
with reasons and theories from the creation model, confirmed with actual agreed upon universal laws such as the first and second laws of thermodynamics.
How does the creation model not violate the second law of thermodynamics?
I just wanted to show *why* creation science is a science.
You've failed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 1:44 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 336 (501507)
03-06-2009 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by Kelly
03-06-2009 2:09 PM


Re: You only hope I failed
I thought creation science didn't have anything to do with god. I guess the truth come out finally.
How does creation science not violate the second laws of thermodynamics?
And why do you keep avoiding this question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:09 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:31 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 336 (501510)
03-06-2009 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Kelly
03-06-2009 2:31 PM


Re: You only hope I failed
Creation Science itself is a study of the evidence, not of God or the Bible. It has nothing to do with religion or God directly.
Then why bring her up?
However, for those who have faith in God, it has consequences. If the Bible is truth, then how we respond to it matters alot.
That doesn't make any sense.
CS has nothing to do with god but if you believe in god then it does!?
If CS has nothing to do with god, then what does it have to do with the Bible? How does how we repond to it matter at all?
I also answered this question: "How does creation science not violate the second laws of thermodynamics?" when it was asked by someone else.
Where? Any idea on the message number? I guess I missed it.
I am not going to keep answering the same thing everytime someone else wants to ask it.
Funny that you don't have a problem repeating the same arguments over and over. And how many times have you mentioned that book? I guess its just pick and choose for you. Seems dishonest to me.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:31 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 255 of 336 (501515)
03-06-2009 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Kelly
03-05-2009 7:08 PM


Re: I believe I indicated the answer somewhere in these threads
Not only does the Second Law point back to creation;
But that doesn't make sense. How does the 2nd point to creation?
Creation would be a direct violation of the 2nd because it would decrease entropy!
The Second Law is a little more detailed and can be expressed in several ways, all of which can be shown equivilent. There's Classical Thermodynamics, Statistical Thermodynamics and Informational Thermodynamics.
In each case, entropy is a measure of the lost usefulness of the system. In classical it measures the useful energy which must be converted to nonusable heat energy. In statistical it measures the probability of the structured arrangement of the system--with the state of disorganization being most probable and in informational it measures the amount of garbled information, or noise, that accompanies the transmission of information by the system.
These Laws apply to the whole universe. These Laws predict a gloomy future for the cosmos and indeed if evolution were true, this would be a gloom and doom situation for sure.
Is this the explanation?
That doesn't explain how creation doesn't violate the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Kelly, posted 03-05-2009 7:08 PM Kelly has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 336 (501516)
03-06-2009 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Kelly
03-06-2009 2:42 PM


Re: I brought God up because you are supposedly
I wondered why you, personally, are so opposed to discovering that life might be created rather than evolved?
I'm not opposed to it at all.
The problem is that the evidence goes against it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:42 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:52 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 336 (501519)
03-06-2009 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Kelly
03-06-2009 2:47 PM


Re: I disagree with you on this:
I think the fact that you all seem to think that creation science has to do with religion or God proves that you don't "already know" just what creation science really is.
But you are the one who doesn't know what it is...
Here's the google search on "Creation Science"
creation science - Google Search
All those hits are religious.
Center for Creation Research
quote:
In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood
religious
Institute for Creation Resesarch
quote:
Our Mission
ICR equips believers with evidence of the Bible's accuracy and authority through scientific research, educational programs, and media presentations, all conducted within a thoroughly biblical framework.
religious, specifically mention the Bible
wikipedia on creation science
quote:
Creation science or scientific creationism is the movement within creationism which attempts to use scientific means to disprove the accepted scientific facts and theories on the history of the Earth, cosmology and biological evolution and prove the religious Genesis account of creation.
Again, the Bible.
Can you show any creation science that isn't religious? I can't find any.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:47 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 268 of 336 (501528)
03-06-2009 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Kelly
03-06-2009 2:57 PM


Re: Yes, I can.
I recommended the very source needed to see the difference. "What is Creation Science?" Morris/Parker
I'm familiar with the book....
All it does is attack evolution. It offers no positive evidence of creation, it does not lay out a theory, it does not provide supporting evidence, it does not make predictions. If anything, it show just how unscientific creation science is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 2:57 PM Kelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Kelly, posted 03-06-2009 5:03 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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