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Author Topic:   Thermodynamics
Parasomnium
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Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 5 of 27 (390983)
03-22-2007 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Own3D
03-22-2007 5:54 PM


Not the Second Law again...
Own3D writes:
Becaise neither model can be "proven" this means that neither model can be "disproven".
Could you please explain how you come to this conclusion? Suppose I have a model that explains how gravity works: it's caused by invisible oxygen-breathing pixies who push things to earth. If they didn't do this, everything would be floating around all the time. Now, I don't think I'll ever be able to prove my model. But it doesn't take a genius to propose an experiment whereby we suspend a metal ball on an electromagnet in a vacuum chamber. We wait until the pixies have asphyxiated and switch off the electromagnet. If the ball falls, then we have effectively disproved my model, because something else than pixies must cause it to go down.
The basic postulate of Evolution is a "law" of increasing organization, which introduces new systems into higher systems; The Principle of Naturalistic Innovation and Integration would be a suitable name.
It's all very well to go and reinvent the theory of evolution, but what is it going to bring you? All that's going to happen in the rest of your post is that you are going to shoot down a theory of evolution that never was.
All scientists agree that the universe is running down (entropy). This is accepted as a universal fact in The Second Law of Thermodynamics.
the Evolution model propses a contradiction to the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
First you say that all scientists agree on the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and then you say they don't. Which is it?
Frankly, what you say doesn't make sense to me.
Edited by Parasomnium, : Removed the word 'bearing'.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Own3D, posted 03-22-2007 5:54 PM Own3D has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 20 of 27 (391270)
03-24-2007 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Own3D
03-24-2007 12:31 AM


Pixies, scientists and the Second Law.
Own3D writes:
[...] how do you know that there are pixies in the vacuum chamber when the air is pumped out?
I don't know this, but it is what my model assumes.
[...] if the pixies are invisible, how do you know that they breathe oxygen, how do you know they breathe at all?
Again, this is what the model assumes.
If this model was true, the experiment designed to "disprove" it would not be valid.
On the contrary, if the model was true, in all its aspects, then the experiment would certainly have disproved it.
Everyone can see the same effects of gravity in the solar system, which is in empty space(a vacuum), as those on Earth.
Well spotted. We didn't even have to bother with a vacuum chamber. But the point I wanted to make is that the assertion you made earlier, namely:
quote:
Because neither model can be "proven" this means that neither model can be "disproven"
is nonsensical. As someone said: it's a non-sequitur. I can't prove the pixy-model of gravity, but that doesn't mean I can't disprove it. The experiment I described clearly shows that I can.
It's all very well to go and reinvent the theory of evolution
Can you provide a better definition? The basic postulate of Evolution is a "law" of increasing organization, which introduces new systems into higher systems.
Of course I can provide a better definition. Your "basic postulate of Evolution" is a bogus representation of what evolution is all about. Here's my definition of evolution: descent with modification by natural selection. It's as simple as that. What you say is evolution's basic postulate is at most a corollary.
First you say that all scientists agree on the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and then you say they don't
Wow, you think so? All scientists do accept the Second Law of Thermodynamics as fact, its observable, it can be experimented on, and it’s proven to be a known phenomenon.
Agreed, so far. But...
Not all scientists are, however, Evolutionists.
Well, maybe not, but evolution is a science and the people studying it are scientists. So saying that the theory of evolution - a theory coming from scientists - proposes a contradiction to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, is tantamount to saying that there are scientists who do not accept the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This contradicts your earlier assertion that all scientists accept it. I merely wanted to point out a flaw in your reasoning.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Own3D, posted 03-24-2007 12:31 AM Own3D has not replied

  
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