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Author Topic:   Evolution is a Religious Issue
mick
Member (Idle past 5012 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 104 of 303 (212181)
05-28-2005 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by crashfrog
05-28-2005 5:30 PM


2000 hypotheses
Crashfrog writes:
OK, well list 2000 predictions, and the time they were made, that are specific to evolution and have borne out, and then the statement will have been backed up.
Not to be flippant, but it is sometimes the case that statements about the scientific community and process are made that cannot be verified short of experiencing a life, or at least several years, as an intimate part of that community.
This is one of those statements. The internet is an conduit for much information, but it cannot be a conduit for something that takes great familiarity with a community to judge.
Well, the internet can probably provide you with 2000 hypotheses, if you are willing to put in the groundwork (you would have to read at least 2000 articles, for example).
But i feel pretty confident that the contents of the journal Genetics since 1916 would provide at least 1000 tests of evolutionary theory. I guess it's up to randman to read them.
Mick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by crashfrog, posted 05-28-2005 5:30 PM crashfrog has not replied

mick
Member (Idle past 5012 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 108 of 303 (212187)
05-28-2005 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by randman
05-28-2005 8:03 PM


Re: even YEC believe in "evolution"
randman writes:
I suspect, and you guys can tell me if I am wrong and show some specifics, that what you term "evolution" in applied biological research is nothing but the general concept of evolution, and really even YECers believe that. They beleive, for example, that new species arise all the time via evolution.
But the issue is much more narrow that that. It is common descent, and the idea that every day, people's jobs in research depends on whether the specific concept of common descent from a single organism is true rather than just evolution of species from prior species, well, I suspect just the general concept is necessary and predictive.
That's a new one on me! If you believe that "new species arise all the time via evolution" and this understanding is both "necessary and predictive" in biological research, then you've kind of answered the question for yourself.
But more generally, the argument is not that people's jobs "depend on the theory of evolution" but that they are able to do their jobs better when they understand the evolutionary background to their system of study. Research in HIV treatment etc. take it for granted that different strains of HIV arise from one another, and this is a fundamental basis for how we research the disease. Similarly, conservation biology uses guestimates of the "evolutionary capital" maintained by ecological systems in order to prioritise conservation efforts.
People's jobs do not depend on the idea that ALL life originated from a single ancestor. I cannot think of a job that requires fungus to have a common ancestor with the macaque. Frequently, however, the idea that closely related taxa originated from a single ancestor IS helpful. The idea of a common ancestor for all life is just a consequence of the theory, and it seems reasonable, given what we know about biology.
Mick
Mick
Mick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by randman, posted 05-28-2005 8:03 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by NosyNed, posted 05-28-2005 9:09 PM mick has not replied
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mick
Member (Idle past 5012 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 109 of 303 (212188)
05-28-2005 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by randman
05-28-2005 8:24 PM


Hi randman,
randman writes:
Those same inferences [used by breeders] are not exclusive to evolutionary biology
If found this a bit confusing. Could you give some examples? Because those inferences appear to be 100% consistent with evolutionary biology, but not 100% consistent with any other theory. How do you evolve new plant cultivars or livestock breeds if you deny the concept of direct descent? What do you put in its place?
mick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by randman, posted 05-28-2005 8:24 PM randman has not replied

mick
Member (Idle past 5012 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 248 of 303 (213602)
06-02-2005 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by randman
06-02-2005 2:44 AM


randman writes:
Well then, let's consider alternative explanations. For example, what if there was multiple descent, or special creations of kinds
These hypotheses have been tested in a phylogenetic context and have been rejected.
Mick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by randman, posted 06-02-2005 2:44 AM randman has not replied

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