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Author Topic:   Fact Theory Falacy
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 136 (5098)
02-19-2002 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by toff
02-18-2002 6:06 AM


"I'll try again, since my last attempt failed. I didn't ask for a book about creationists who had some scientific qualifications. I asked WHAT famous scientists who were/are creationist (post darwin, preferably in the last 50 years)? Can you even supply ONE?"
--What are your requirnments for being 'famous'.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by toff, posted 02-18-2002 6:06 AM toff has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Pete, posted 02-19-2002 7:18 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded
 Message 109 by toff, posted 02-20-2002 2:35 AM TrueCreation has responded

  
Pete
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 136 (5106)
02-19-2002 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by TrueCreation
02-19-2002 6:32 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"I'll try again, since my last attempt failed. I didn't ask for a book about creationists who had some scientific qualifications. I asked WHAT famous scientists who were/are creationist (post darwin, preferably in the last 50 years)? Can you even supply ONE?"
--What are your requirnments for being 'famous'.

I would hazard a guess that famous would have to be someone we are
likely to have heard of.

Really famous would be someone who is known outside of their own
field of study.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by TrueCreation, posted 02-19-2002 6:32 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

  
toff
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 136 (5125)
02-20-2002 2:35 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by TrueCreation
02-19-2002 6:32 PM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"I'll try again, since my last attempt failed. I didn't ask for a book about creationists who had some scientific qualifications. I asked WHAT famous scientists who were/are creationist (post darwin, preferably in the last 50 years)? Can you even supply ONE?"
--What are your requirnments for being 'famous'.

Oh boy. Find a dictionary. Open it to where it shows the definition of the word 'famous'. Bingo!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by TrueCreation, posted 02-19-2002 6:32 PM TrueCreation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by wj, posted 02-20-2002 6:01 PM toff has responded
 Message 115 by TrueCreation, posted 02-24-2002 1:16 AM toff has responded

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 136 (5192)
02-20-2002 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by toff
02-20-2002 2:35 AM


Are we allowed to assume that, in the absence of any substantive answer, that there has been no famous scientist has been a creationist in the last 50 years?

Is this the result of discrimination against creationists and their works, a conspiracy to ignore creationists' scientific findings, a complete brainwashing of the scientific community to unthinkingly accept evolutionary theory or the failure of creationism to provide a consistent, scientifically plausible alternative to evolutionary theory?

It is interesting to see the number of persons who are brought up as creationists, receive an education in science, critically examine the "science" of creationism and ultimately reject it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by toff, posted 02-20-2002 2:35 AM toff has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by toff, posted 02-21-2002 9:49 AM wj has not yet responded
 Message 112 by doctrbill, posted 02-21-2002 11:16 AM wj has not yet responded

  
toff
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 136 (5215)
02-21-2002 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by wj
02-20-2002 6:01 PM


quote:
Originally posted by wj:
Are we allowed to assume that, in the absence of any substantive answer, that there has been no famous scientist has been a creationist in the last 50 years

Yup, I'd say so. Despite his confident mention of the 'famous scientists who were creationist', TrueCreation has been unable to come up with even one. Surprise, surprise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by wj, posted 02-20-2002 6:01 PM wj has not yet responded

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 845 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 112 of 136 (5222)
02-21-2002 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by wj
02-20-2002 6:01 PM


quote:
Originally posted by wj:
Is this the ... failure of creationism to provide a consistent, scientifically plausible alternative to evolutionary theory?.

Yes it is.

quote:
Originally posted by wj:
It is interesting to see the number of persons who are brought up as creationists, receive an education in science, critically examine the "science" of creationism and ultimately reject it.

Here, Here!

I have a bit of personal experience with that.

-----------
db

------------------
Bachelor of Arts - Loma Linda University
Major - Biology; Minor - Religion
Anatomy and Physiology - LLU School of Medicine
Embryology - La Sierra University
Biblical languages - Pacific Union College
Bible doctrines - Walla Walla College


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by wj, posted 02-20-2002 6:01 PM wj has not yet responded

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 136 (5376)
02-23-2002 11:46 PM


Would Arthur E. Wilder-Smith count? He had 3 Doctorates.
Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by TrueCreation, posted 02-24-2002 1:14 AM Cobra_snake has responded
 Message 117 by wj, posted 02-24-2002 4:58 AM Cobra_snake has not yet responded

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 136 (5378)
02-24-2002 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Cobra_snake
02-23-2002 11:46 PM


"Would Arthur E. Wilder-Smith count? He had 3 Doctorates."
--Wow 3? Wasn't aware of that, in what areas? I plan on getting minimally 1, depending on my marital statis I'll shoot for 2 or 3. I don't know about you guys, but I love science.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-23-2002 11:46 PM Cobra_snake has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-24-2002 12:45 PM TrueCreation has not yet responded

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 136 (5379)
02-24-2002 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by toff
02-20-2002 2:35 AM


"Oh boy. Find a dictionary. Open it to where it shows the definition of the word 'famous'. Bingo!"
--If thats the catagorial listing capability, you might want to add a good portion of the AiG and ICR Gang.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by toff, posted 02-20-2002 2:35 AM toff has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Mister Pamboli, posted 02-24-2002 2:10 AM TrueCreation has responded
 Message 121 by toff, posted 02-25-2002 2:47 AM TrueCreation has responded

  
Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5657 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 116 of 136 (5386)
02-24-2002 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by TrueCreation
02-24-2002 1:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Oh boy. Find a dictionary. Open it to where it shows the definition of the word 'famous'. Bingo!"
--If thats the catagorial listing capability, you might want to add a good portion of the AiG and ICR Gang.

No TC - that's the infamous list! ;-)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by TrueCreation, posted 02-24-2002 1:16 AM TrueCreation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by TrueCreation, posted 02-25-2002 7:58 AM Mister Pamboli has not yet responded

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 136 (5392)
02-24-2002 4:58 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Cobra_snake
02-23-2002 11:46 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
Would Arthur E. Wilder-Smith count? He had 3 Doctorates.

Here's more detail on Arthur E. Wilder-Smith from http://www.thewordfortoday.org/wildersmith.html

"Biography

A..E. Wilder-Smith studied natural sciences at Oxford, England. He received his first doctorate in Physical Organic Chemistry at Reading University, England, 1941. During World War II, he joined the Research department of ICI in England. After the war, he became Countess of Lisburne Memorial Fellow at the University of London. Subsequently, Dr. Wilder-Smith was appointed Director of Research for a Swiss pharmaceutical company. Later he was elected to teach Chemotherapy and Pharmacology at the Medical School of the University of Geneva for which position he received his ``habitation" (the senior examination required for professorial appointments to European continental universities). At Geneva, he earned his second doctorate, followed by a third doctorate from the ETH (a senior university in Switzerland) in Zurich.

In 1957-1958 Wilder-Smith was Visiting Assistant Professor at the Medical Centre of the University of Illinois, 1959-1961 Visting Full Professor of Pharmacology of the University of Bergen Medical School in Norway. After a further two years at the University of Geneva, he was appointed Full Professor of Pharmacology at the University of Illinois Medical Centre. Here he received in three succeeding years - three ``Golden Apple Awards" for the best course of lectures, together with four senior lecturer awards for the best series of year lectures.

Dr. Wilder-Smith's last Golden Apple award was inscribed, ``He made us not only better scientists, but also better men."

Curriculum Vitae

Creationist, Chemist, & Lecturer
Ph.D. in physical organic chemistry at University of Reading, England (1941)
Dr.es.Sc. in pharmacological sciences from Eidgenossische Technische Hochschule (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) in Zurich
D.Sc. in pharmacological sciences from University of Geneva (1964)
F.R.I.C. (Fellow of the Royal Institute of Chemistry) Professorships held at numerous institutions including: University of Illinois Medical School Center (Visiting Full Professor of Pharmacology, 1959-61, received 3 "Golden Apple" awards for the best course of lectures), University of Geneva School of Medicine, University of Bergen (Norway) School of Medicine, Hacettepe University (Ankara, Turkey) Medical School, etc.
Former Director of Research for a Swiss pharmaceutical company
Presented the 1986 Huxley Memorial Lecture at the invitation of the University of Oxford
Author or co-author of over 70 scientific publications and more than 30 books published in 17 languages
NATO three-star general
Deceased
Dr. Wilder-Smith was featured in an award-winning film and video series called ORIGINS: How the World Came to Be "

The difficulty in assessing whether he was "famous" is that he doesn't appear to have gained any fame from his scientific work (I suspect none of his 70 scientific publications dealt with creation science) but is famous as being a highly qualified creationist pin-up. His formal qualifications in organic chemistry apparently allowed him to offer creationist views on cosmogeny and thermodynamics.

As a person with some interest in science but no great contact with creationism, I can say that I have never heard of him, except in connection with his creationist apologia.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-23-2002 11:46 PM Cobra_snake has not yet responded

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 136 (5400)
02-24-2002 12:42 PM


Well the question is kinda meaninless anyway. What does being a famous scientist have to do with whether or not Creation is correct. It's not that I think the question shouldn't be asked, it's just that it should not be considered evidence of whether or not Creation is correct.
  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 136 (5401)
02-24-2002 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by TrueCreation
02-24-2002 1:14 AM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
--Wow 3? Wasn't aware of that, in what areas? I plan on getting minimally 1, depending on my marital statis I'll shoot for 2 or 3. I don't know about you guys, but I love science.


Great, maybe one day you will make it into the "infamous" list with all those other incompetent Creation Scientists!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by TrueCreation, posted 02-24-2002 1:14 AM TrueCreation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-24-2002 1:17 PM Cobra_snake has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3708
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 120 of 136 (5405)
02-24-2002 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Cobra_snake
02-24-2002 12:45 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Cobra_snake:
Great, maybe one day you will make it into the "infamous" list with all those other incompetent Creation Scientists!

The question remains: In what areas are their competences, and in what areas are their incompetences? Is their input into the E/C debate coming from their areas of competences or their areas of their incompetences?

Moose

------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Cobra_snake, posted 02-24-2002 12:45 PM Cobra_snake has not yet responded

    
toff
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 136 (5438)
02-25-2002 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by TrueCreation
02-24-2002 1:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by TrueCreation:
"Oh boy. Find a dictionary. Open it to where it shows the definition of the word 'famous'. Bingo!"
--If thats the catagorial listing capability, you might want to add a good portion of the AiG and ICR Gang.

Ummm...no. Note the request asked for 'famous scientists'. People like Gish, Hovind, et. al. might well be famous, but they're not scientists.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by TrueCreation, posted 02-24-2002 1:16 AM TrueCreation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by TrueCreation, posted 02-25-2002 8:06 AM toff has responded

  
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