Creationists: Why is Evolution Bad Science?

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Which I believe that the first stage of evolution is pond scum so that would therefore mean that our DNA and every other creatures DNA that we evolved from would have to have a similarity.

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Actually, pond scum isn't the first stage. Rather, humans and pond scum share a common ancestor, although that ancestor lived several billion years ago. Both pond scum and humans are separate tips of branches off of a single tree trunk.

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Einsteins theory of General Relativity is a theory, electromagnetics is a thoery, quantum mechanics is a theory, and evolution is no different to any of them"

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WE have mixed apples and oranges here. Mathematically, all the above can be derived except evolution.

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This is false. General Relativity, electrodynamics (both quantum and classical), quantum mechanics, and the like start with mathematical axioms describing what equations govern the phenomena at hand. Then, based on the equations that are accepted a priori, predictions are made as to the phenomena that should be seen. Then one checks to see whether the phenomena are actually seen in real life -- if they are, then the a priori assumptions (the theory, if you will) is accepted as verified, at least in that particular case.This is not different than the theory of evolution. I have just written a post describing one particular set of predictions that are made using the theory of evolution and pointing out that they have been confirmed. (That post recieved a POTM nomination, so evidently it is very, very good.)For more evidence for the theory of evolution, that is, for more predictions that were made on the basis of the theory of evolution that were then confirmed through observation, I suggest you read Douglas Theobald's fine essay on the topic.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

To help you out, Dr. Theobald has a sidebar where he links to a critique by Ashby Camp. However, when you read Camp's critique, you'll notice that he often didn't quite understand what Theobald's points were. At any rate, Theobald responded to Ashby's criticisms by rewriting portions of his essay to make it clearer.At any rate, if and when you respond, don't try to write a gigantuan post that tries to answer everything. Try to focus on one of Theobald's evidences at a time. Unless you have a very general observation that applies to a bunch at once.Added by edit:Oh, and don't forget, when you do post a critique of Theobald, make sure you do it in a new thread.This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 05-Mar-2006 11:11 PM

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I will join Ned in welcoming you to EvC, runningman.-

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Evolution is bad science because there is not enough evidence to justify it. I don't blame Darwin for this, it's all very well to come up with a theory that may have seemed plausible at the time and was worth investigating.

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Actually, Darwin spent most of his life investigating this. He wrote two books (Origin of Species and Descent of Man) and numerous shorter monographs and papers filled with detailed evidence to support his theories. Science hasn't slowed down, either. Over 150 years have produced a lot of evidence to support the theory of evolution.I'd supply a link to my favorite site that speaks about the evidence in favor of the theory of evolution, but it seems to be down at the moment. If you are interested, I will supply the link in a later post.-

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Darwin was also concerned about the lack of fossil evidence but thought that intermediate forms would be found.

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And they have been found! In spades!-

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No other scientific theory has stood for so long with such a lack of supporting evidence.

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Actually, very few theories have ever been so well supported. I hope that the website that I previously mentioned is up soon.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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There is no evidence that an aquatic species evolved to adapt to the land.

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I have to agree with Ned here. What in the world would you consider to be evidence?

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I guess what I'm trying to say in too many words is that the reason the theory is not scientific is because too much of it is conjectured rather than formulated from direct evidence.

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Then I think you need to do a lot more reading. There is no less evidence that all known species have evolved from a small number of ancestral species during the last three and a half billion years than there is that the sun is powered by nuclear fusion reactions.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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Another question I have is why could animals not evolved from plants on land.

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If you are asking how we know that animals did not evolve from plants, it is because the molecular evidence points to a very, very distant common ancestor, from more primitive single celled eukaryotic organisms. There certainly is no evidence that the common ancestor of all animals was a plant; it was probably a single celled organism similar to the choanoflagellates.

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The first organsisms were plants in the oceans.

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We don't know what the first organisms were -- there are likely no trace of the first things we would undoubtably call life, the first single celled replicators.The first organisms that we know of were probably the prokaryotes we call the archaea (which today mostly live in extreme environments).One line of the archaea produced the eubacteria.Another line became the first eukaryotic cells.One line of these eukaryotes evolved into the multicellular plants and algae. (Actually, the evolutionary history of plants and algae is more complex than this; see the Wikipedia article on chloroplasts and read the section on origins.) A completely different line was the ancestor of animals and fungi, and this line split into the lines leading to multicellular animals and to the fungi (and the common ancestor of fungi and animals was probably a single celled organism).

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What I have said was that we do have a herd mentality.... I never was much of a follower.

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You don't know how relieved I am that there are Ubermenschen like you among us deluded fools.-

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If other people choose to let evidence lead them to thier own conclusions that is thier business.

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Thank you. And if other people decide to retain their beliefs despite the evidence, that, too, is their business.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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I do not mention this to "debunk" anything....

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That's good, because to "debunk" a claim you would have to talk about the evidence that is being used to support that claim and the arguments that explain why the evidence is believed to support the claims, and then you would have to tell us why you feel the reasoning is fallacious.So far you have only claimed that you are not "following the herd".

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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You are just not happy that I am not gleefully willing to wholeheartedly accept the "moral majorities" View of the interpretation of observable information.

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On the contrary, now that I've pegged you I find you quite amusing. I know several people like you -- people who just decide to disagree with "the herd" just so you can claim to be "an independent thinker".

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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I never said there aren't fish that can walk on land or climb trees.

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Actually, what you said was: So, in a previous post you claimed that fish need to be fast, agile swimmers and couldn't evolve legs. Now in this post you admit that there exist fish today can walk on land, yet you don't acknowledge your error. You appear to be very confused not only about science, but you seem to be confused about what you believe and what you know.-

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I would like for you to give me a link to the fish you are talking about so I can give my reasoning on it.

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Here is a link to Wikipedia's article on mudskippers. Google can give you many more links.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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Just because evolution was made up 150 years ago. And everything evolutionist have discovered they fit into the evolution theory. And if it went against the evolution theory, they simply changed the evolution theory in order to fit it into the evolution theory.

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You keep saying this. Again, I invite you to look at the OP in the Evolution Simplified thread. The OP describes what the Theory of Evolution is at its most basic. That is what the ToE was when Darwin first proposed it, and it is what it remains today. As you can see, the essentials have not changed very much, if at all.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)

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Actually, it turns out that lungs evolved even before the swim bladders possessed by most fish.

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Indeed, it is widely believed that swim bladders evolved from lungs.In fact, lung fish are called lung fish because they possess lungs. In fact, according to one web site, lung fish can drown if they are not allowed to breathe air.

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"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken (quoted on Panda's Thumb)