Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2

Hey Karl,When you reply to a post, can you hit the 'reply' or 'reply quote' button so that the forum software includes a link to the post to which you re replying? It makes tracking these discussions much easier.------------------
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Originally posted by gene90:
Actually very little in science can be accurately explained to a six year old. Otherwise we could teach Thermodynamic Meteorology to first graders.

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Right-o.Sonnikke,Try explaining something like calculus to a six year old. If you can't, we must ditch calculus. You can't be serious?------------------
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Originally posted by sonnikke:
you guys are certainly never guilty of making creationists straw men right??

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Creationist do a fine job of it without our assistance ------------------
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Originally posted by sonnikke:
Origin of life would seem to be the foundation for the whole thing.

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But its not, sonnike. It isn't like building a geometry where you assume your premises and build an edifice upon them. In other words, scientists do not assume what happened in the past and conclude that evolution is the answer. The ToE is build the other way around. Scientists observe what is happening right now and extrapolate backwards through time checking those extrapolations against the fossil records.

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If you can't get past how life began

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You don't have to get past how life began. The ToE only deals with living organisms. It is independant of how the first organisms got here. God could have made the first critters.

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how can you exclude God and simply believe that natural "accidents" "created" the world and the variety and complexity of life and nature we know?

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No one is actively excluding God. We have evidence and we follow it. That's all. No one is turning flips to avoid God. There just isn't any evidence that leads in that direction.

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You call mine a straw man because it does sound preposterous

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That isn't why your statements are called straw men. A straw man is a misrepresentation of an argument. Even if your version is correct, it is a straw man if it isn't the argument being made by your adversary.

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too unbelievable for the logical mind (even if you leave God out of the question, I would never believe such a fairy tale)

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agument from incredulity... this is a logical fallacy. What was that about the logical mind?

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what is preventing you from accepting God in your life?

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There is no reason to believe. There is no evidence.------------------
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Originally posted by Karl:
What is the barrier that prevents this from extending to, for example, explain the various genera of cichlid fish at Lake Malawi? Where does micro-evolution become macro?

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Yes, please, sonnike. This is a terribly important question and no one has ever ventured to give an answer.

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Do please post your textbook's description of evolution, so's we can see why it's so ludicrous.

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Well, being a textbook, the description may well be ludicrous. Or maybe sonnike just doesn't understand.

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Regarding seperating abiogenesis from evolution -they've always been seperate! Darwin didn't approach the topic in Origin. They are seperate concepts, with seperate mechanisms, processes and hypotheses. So your "not including origin of life anymore" comment is pure nonsense.

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This cannot be emphasized enough. Continuing this nonsense only makes creationism look worse than it actually is-- and it actually is pretty bad.

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We don't attribute the origin of life to God, we say that if that is the case, it's not a problem for evolution. From a theistic viewpoint, I don't think that abiogenesis was miraculous in the normal sense.

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This may not be true, sonnike, but it certainly isn't self-contradictory or hypocritical as you stated.------------------
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Originally posted by sonnikke:
The following information could be detrimental to young believers in the antiquated theory of evolution.

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I love the arrogance. Sincerely.....

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If it can be clearly demonstrated and proven that humans are **NOT** animals but are distinct and superior, the theory of evolution **COMPLETELY and UTTERLY** disintegrates!!!

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I could quibble about this a bit but more or less its on the money. In fact, if you could prove that any animal is utterly distinct, meaning unrelated to, any other animal you'd accomplish the same goal. You don't even need the 'superior' part of the equation. So knock yourself out.------------------
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Originally posted by sonnikke:
1. We make and use tools.

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So do chimps. Strike that one.

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2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressions of their creative imagination.

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You are making too much out of this one. Many animals decorate. It is a matter of degree only. No webpage found at provided URL: http://biology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.academicpress.com%2Fanbehav

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3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form.

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Again, you have nothing unique here. It is just a matter of degree. No webpage found at provided URL: http://biology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.primate.wisc.edu%3A80%2Fpin%2Fbehavior.html

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4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire.

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Bet you'd run from a forest fire too. This falls under the heading of tool use, so it goes under item one, and item one is ridiculous if you've ever studied primates.

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5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after.

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This is the best you've got. The practice started with the neandarthals, our kissing cousins, about 100,000 years ago, which means that we were around 2-3 hundred thousand years before the idea occured to anyone. Thus, it isn't much of a dividing line between 'us' and 'them'

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To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings.

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I have no such innate sensation. And you should try to remember that 'innate' means 'I ain't got no proof, I just think so.'

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We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc...

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Big deal? You need a sharp line of demarcation, not a continuum.

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It is obvious we are different.

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No. Not really.------------------
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Originally posted by SLPx:

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Originally posted by sonnikke:

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if humans = animals
then mathematically, animals = humans.

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Is it safe to conclude that you have never taken a math class either?

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Really, this is just getting plain stupid.

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No kidding.------------------
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