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Author Topic:   Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2
TechnoCore
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 258 (24953)
11-29-2002 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by DanskerMan
11-27-2002 1:27 PM


In almost all discussions between intelligent people among different subjects, both parts can mostly fully understand and describe the opponents view, and why they believe in it. When we disagree it is often due to a part in the other idea/concept which is thought to undermine it.
In your post it is just plain evident you have not understood evolution at all. Your points just miss the target.
(A small comparison. Communism for example. Anyone who have understood it can agree that it's a great idea. _In theory_. Everyone living together, sharing everything equally in harmony. No class or economical differences. It would be a kind of utopia. I however, and most people nowadays would argue that humans doesn't seem to fit into this model, since we all are a bit too greedy. And that communism doesn't seem to work very good in a real society. But still I can understand the greatness of the idea. )
What is astonishing about creationists is that most of you don't even seem to grasp why evolution is thought of by almost all scientists as a great explanation. Why is that then ? In message after message it becomes evident that most of you haven't taken the time to fully understand it. (Or even just the basics.)
Time after time i am just amazed. Does your intellects go into sleeping-mode every time someone offers you a good explanation for evolution ? This debate sometimes seems like a debate between a person and a brick wall.
Maybe you should get into the role of the devils advocate...
Don't you agree it is easier to argue against something that you actually understand ?
Imho most creationists don't even want to understand it.
(mind the english, it's not my native languange
//TechnoCore

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by DanskerMan, posted 11-27-2002 1:27 PM DanskerMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by DanskerMan, posted 11-29-2002 3:31 PM TechnoCore has replied

  
TechnoCore
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 258 (25314)
12-02-2002 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by DanskerMan
11-29-2002 3:31 PM


I wont give you an analogy, since it's pointless. (And has been offered 100 times on diffrent subjects on this site) The original explanation is easy enough for anyone to understand.
Look at what you wrote:
>---Life appears out of nowhere - un-explained by evolutionists.
Yes. but this is not what the debate is about, agreed ?
For all we know now God might have set the first seed, or some funky self-replicating molecule, or alies or whatever
>The first life is a single celled organism living in a hostile environment, un-protected, for who knows how long before it magically divides into two organisms.
Its obvious life didn't magically start with a single cell. No one believes that. (unless it was designed by a God at this stage). A cell does after all contain something like a bilion trillion atoms.
It had to come from much simpler buildingblocks. That would be even more unpropably than that stupid analogy of a 747 self-assembling in a scrap yard.
Whatever it started with, it started because it replicated itself.
>What protects it?
What kind of question is that ? Who protects me now ? The police ? My family ? Living things are not "protected". What do you mean by that ?
We life in a hostile world.
>What supports it?
Same irrelivant question.
>What force causes it to change?
Those of them who aren't able to get food, and those who can't handle a changing hostile environment dies. Agreed ?
The ones who are left will replicate or reproduce. Because thats what they do, since thats why they came about in the first place. And when they do they make nice copies of themself. But not perfect copies. It's hard to make to identical lumps of a billion trillion atoms, right ? as long as there is food they will replicate until the food and their habitat just isn't enough for everyone. And who of them do you now suppose dies ? Remember, they are not identical. Remember they do all have small diffrences between eachother.
Well there can really just be one resonable answer to this question:
The ones that are least fit to the environment, or abillity to make use of the food dies. Right ? Every generation this repeats. The least adapted dies, because there are others who have it easier to make it through the day. But that which is a good thing in the warm waters around the equator, might be bad somewhere else, where the environment is different.
>How can all life we see, with all the different complexities and information codes, come from that?
I just explained that.
>When everything around us breaks down and deteriorates, believing the opposite to be true and for unimaginable periods, is certainly a fairytale.
Anyway, the environment magically reverses to accommodate the new life (ie. atmosphere).
Now this sentance just makes me wanna scream out of frustration: "the environment magically reverses to accommodate the new life". NO IT DOES NOT! Life adapts to the environment. The environment is dead. It cannot do things magically. Nothing can. However, the organisms are part of the environment. And if you get alot of them, they might have secondary effects on their surroundings. Like algae or bacteria that produces waste-products, like gases. In huge amounts if they are many.
>Ages pass, simple life miraculously becomes more complex...
There is no miracle there. There is only the pure logic of things to be. Imho you can't really attack the concept of natural selection, because it is self upholding.
1)There are creatures which are good and less good adapted.
2)bad adapted dies easier
3)only slightly better adapted remains, and reproduces.
4)go to 1) but remember that the avrage creature are slightly better adapted now.
You can however attack other parts... but i give that to you to figure out.
>all of a sudden there are two different species...male female?
Male - Female two different species ? LoL ?
There are rather a couple of million different species. You know why ? because each place on earth has different environments, and the creatures that replicate on those different places will adapt to those places. According to 1-4. But hey! creatures at the warm equator will have completly different surroundings than those further up north.
>Who knows, evolution doesn't care, it can explain everything...ages and ages pass, somehow there's food, somehow species reproduce, somehow they change to different species (it's very complex, you know, math and stuff) ...they live they die..yada yada yada...behold! Humans!!
No math is needed. Only common sense.
>And that, little 6 year old Johnny, is how we came about...without any intelligence and guiding force...just accidentally...
Won't even comment this last section.
//TechnoCore

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by DanskerMan, posted 11-29-2002 3:31 PM DanskerMan has not replied

  
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