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Author | Topic: What Science is NOT | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Chara Inactive Member |
In other discussions, I see people using the phrase "prove it to me" using Science as your base (or other words to that effect). I would like to suggest that Science is NOT a means by which something can be proven. The history of science shows that scientific conclusions are continually being changed based on new informtion. All it takes is once counter-example. Therefore the conclusions of science are always tentative.
What can we do with science? We can study just about anything and attempt to answer just about any question. As long as we use the scientific method. Emphasis on the attempt part, because our conclusions could be wrong. We can even use the scientific method to evaluate the hypothesis that the Bible is the Word of God.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5510 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: You won't find anyone who disagrees with you here.
quote: Ah, for that you will need a testable hypothesis. Do you have one? No? Then the scientific method, & therefore science has nothing to say on the matter. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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Chara Inactive Member |
quote: Well, I think that I have a testable hypothesis. [I think, therefore I am ![]() Now we need some data ... let's look first at the Bible and see if we can find any evidence that either supports or contradicts the hypothesis. Well, after reading the Bible, I find that the Bible makes a lot of predictions about the future (I'm not talking about the bible code). Since parts of the Bible where written a long, long time ago, some of those predictions should have come true. After all, if the Bible is the Word of God, then God must have inspired it. Thus, any predicitions that it makes about the future must be true. However, if the Bible was, in fact, not inspired by God, then it wouldn't have a very good track record. To be continued [Fixed quoting. --Admin] [This message has been edited by Admin, 11-10-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2484 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Your hypothesis is not scientific, because it is not falsifiable. If there are any predictions in the Bible which are not true, one can always say that X hasn't come to pass yet. Therefore, there is no way for the Bible to ever be wrong. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
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nator Member (Idle past 2484 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
On the other hand...
The Bible HAS made predictions which have not come true: Mark 13:26,27And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect form the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven. Mark 13:29,30So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place. Of course you could argue that the use of the word "generation" is a metaphor or something, but then you are then frimly in the realm of unfalsafiable dogma, able to interpret at will to make things fit as you see fit.
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blitz77 Inactive Member |
quote: You forgot about language translation. The word 'generation' could also be interpreted as race (ie the Jews). As you should know, words can have multiple meanings. Many words in English also have multiple meanings. [This message has been edited by blitz77, 11-11-2002]
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
[outsider nitpicking]
Anybody knew Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic? Maybe if we read its original texts we may have a clue what those passages suppose to mean.
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Chara Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
Your hypothesis is not scientific, because it is not falsifiable. If there are any predictions in the Bible which are not true, one can always say that X hasn't come to pass yet. Therefore, there is no way for the Bible to ever be wrong. [/B][/QUOTE] Falsifiable, I assume, means that the hypothesis can be proven false.Is it not possible to examine and collect data over a period of time? Granted that might mean that in my lifetime, I may not have been able to come to the point where I have a theory. The interpretation of my data collection would be tentative and still could be shown to be false over a period of time. On the other hand, as my data increases, I may find that the probablility of my hypothesis being true is correct. Edited thought: There is no time limit on the Scientific Method is there? [This message has been edited by Chara, 11-11-2002]
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Chara Inactive Member |
quote: Or my interpretation of the results may be flawed. Perhaps I have an incorrect understanding of the prediction, or maybe I don't have the information I need. I must be careful not to jump to conclusions based on my presuppositions.
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Primordial Egg Inactive Member |
quote: Or maybe the Bible is like any other text which makes nebulous predictions of which some come true and some don't (aka not yet come true / misinterpreted nebulous concept within text). Here's my prediction for tomorrow: For some readers of the EvC forum, unique new opportunities will bring pleasant surprises ![]() PE Edit: wrote "bile" instead of "bible". Bet Freud would have something to say about that. [This message has been edited by Primordial Egg, 11-11-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2484 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, there you go. Unfalsafiability. Not scientific.
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nator Member (Idle past 2484 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chara:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator: Your hypothesis is not scientific, because it is not falsifiable. If there are any predictions in the Bible which are not true, one can always say that X hasn't come to pass yet. Therefore, there is no way for the Bible to ever be wrong. [/B][/QUOTE] quote: Yes. There has to be some evidence, if found, which would falsify the hypothesis.
quote: Yes, of course.
quote: The point is, unless you set specific criterion ahead of time to test your theory that the Bible is inspired by God, all you are ever doing is interpreting after the fact.
quote: No. The limitation on the scientific method is in the reliability of results. I mean, you could use the scientific method to try to make a free energy machine, as many have done over the years, but at some point it is realized by most reasonable people that it just is not likely to happen. [This message has been edited by Chara, 11-11-2002][/B][/QUOTE]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: The predictions have to be precise and detailed or they are worthless ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
okay so prophesies being fulfilled are not acceptable. how about archeologial evidence. is this sort of evidence submittable. not saying this piece alone is the answer, just some data. if something is described in detail in the bible and then discovered by a scientist with a shovel does that not give some credibility to the bible. i found this little nugget of info today. that would give some credit to the accuracy of the old testament.
(HOW A BIBLICAL REFERENCE ENABLED AN ARCHEOLOGIST TO MAKE A SUCCESSFUL PREDICTION One Kings 9:15 reads: "Now this is the account of the forced labor which King Solomon levied to build the house of the Lord, his own house, the Millo, the wall of Jerusalem, Hazor, Megiddo, and Gezer." Dr. Yigael Yadkin, an Israeli archeologist, dug up stables at Hazor like those found at Megiddo. Visiting back at the Megiddo site, Yadkin carefully wrote down a description of Solomon's gateway there. Figuring that since Solomon built the gateways at both Megiddo and Hazor, they would be similar, he told a few of his workmen exactly what they would find when unearthing the gate at Hazor. To the workmen's total astonishment, they found exactly what Yadkin said they would find: The gateways of the two cities proved to be identical. ( Revolution Against Evolution – A Revolution of the Love of God ) yes this is only 1 piece of data, seems falsifiable, is archeological and historical evidence then allowed in the scientific process ------------------saved by grace [This message has been edited by funkmasterfreaky, 11-11-2002] [This message has been edited by funkmasterfreaky, 11-11-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Prophecies are acceptable. If I told you that someone would die of a gunshot wound next week, you wouldn't consider me a prophet. The prophecy is too vague. If I cited names, times and places, it would be a different story. If I told you that I had predicted a murder and that the proof is that I said so in a book I wrote well after the murder, you would not consider me a prophet. These are reasonable conditions.
quote: Acceptable, most certainly.
quote: It gives verification of that particular story. It does not mean that the Bible as a whole is accurate. These are the same conditions applied to any other ancient documents, so don't whine about it. I am aware of some cases where archeology has corraborated some portion of a Bible story. The names of cities are mentioned, the names of rivers, even people. What you fail to realize is that the Isrealites would have had to have been complete idiots to have lived for generations in the region and not get some things right. What is peculiar is that they got so much wrong. You need archeological evidence for the major stories in the Bible-- the captivity in Egypt, the plagues of Egypt, the kingdoms of Solomon and David (as described in the Bible) ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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