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Author | Topic: What Science is NOT | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
forgiven Inactive Member |
quote: hi mark... i posted to this earlier... what you wrote above, does that concern the mainland city or the island city? let's get out of the way exactly what we're talking about before we continue...
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5522 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: Forgiven, http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/prophecy.htm The island city & mainland are joined by a causeway, & all three have been built on. All locations are still above water. Check the photo, I'm not sure if it was you that said the island had a coastline approx 2.5 miles in length, but the photo bears this out. There is also a part of the city known as the "Hay Er-Raml", or Quarter of sand. This is the causeway between the mainland & the island part.
Compared with;
As you can see, the island still exists, but is connected via a sandbar with the mainland, & has been built upon. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: kissie kissie...
quote: Look at the dates. The earliest copy-- well, not even that but merely fragments-- of Ezekiel is from the Qumram caves circa 100 bc. The events spoken of had already happened. Now if I had a book written today that 'predicted' events that happened two to five hundred years in the past, would anyone take it seriously? Even if the book claimed to not be the original but a copy of a much older work? ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Why are we making this distinction? Ezekiel doesn't, not that I can tell.
quote: This is not the question unless you can demonstrate a good reason for making the distinction. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5522 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
John, Forgiven.
The mainland town was known as Ushu (or Ussu) from Egyptian, Greek, & Assyrian texts, but eventually became a suburb of Tyre proper (the island). Ezekiel, if he made a distinction, would have made a prophecy regarding Ushu, not Tyre, if he had specifically meant the mainland town. Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Got any references? I haven't ran across this bit. I did run across a spiffy picture of the barren rock of modern Tyre.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.kadado.com/media/pics/lebanon/tyre/tyre_from_the_air.jpg ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5522 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
John,
Do a search with "Ushu Tyre". I didn't go much beyond discovering this (today ![]() Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: How is this for irony, God apologizing to Neb. because Tyre DID NOT fall.
quote: Also notice that Neb did in fact take the mainland city. Since the passage states that Neb got nothing for his efforts we must conclude that the original prophecy concerned the island, thus settled the island vs. mainland issue. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Chara Inactive Member |
As I stated in the beginning post, when we find one instance of a counter-example, we need to reexamine the data, or our hypotheses. Obviously, the fact that there is some kind of population on Tyre shows that the prophecy of Ezekiel is not completely fulfilled. We can waltz around the semantics, but the end result has to be, "back to the drawing board."
Others wisely stated in the beginning of this discussion that this investigation was futile because the hypotheses was not falsifiable. You were right and I was wrong. Does this shatter my belief that the Bible is the Word of God? No, because the conclusions of science are always tentative. The Word of God, and the truth found in it affect everything in my life. I don't want to base my life on something as tentative as science.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Convenient but technically unassailable, except on the grounds that it makes the position tautological. It is true no matter what, by design. Hardly convincing.
quote: I didn't expect it to destroy oyur faith. I hope it as least shakes your faith in those hundreds of apologists spreading this story on the web and elsewhere. I found hundreds of such sites. I assume you did too, in the course of this discusion. To Funkie: How can one spread false information such as the story of the barren-rock-o-tyre and not know that it is false? It is a currently occupied city. How hard can that be to verify? Now, see what I meant when I said that apologists tend to disregard fact? ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5522 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Chara,
quote: Apply the scientific method to that, then. If you can't, how do you ascertain you have a true statement? Mark ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
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Chara Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
Convenient but technically unassailable, except on the grounds that it makes the position tautological. It is true no matter what, by design. Hardly convincing. [/b][/quote] I'm sorry John, but I didn't understand this statement. Can you simplify it for me?
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John Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chara:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by John: Convenient but technically unassailable, except on the grounds that it makes the position tautological. It is true no matter what, by design. Hardly convincing. [/b][/quote] I'm sorry John, but I didn't understand this statement. Can you simplify it for me?[/B][/QUOTE] Your statement that the prophecy hasn't been fullfilled yet makes the prophecy tautological. That is, true by definition. 1=1 and 2=2 are tautologies. You can't argue against them, but at the same time they really don't mean much. In other words, the prophecy is insulated from reality. Tyre could grow to be a megapolis occupying the whole planet yet that fact would not damage the prophecy. I could say that eventually I will be crowned King of the United States and simply dismiss criticism with "Wait and see. Eventually it will happen." I doubt anyone would take me seriously, but that is very much the position taken when you say that "well, it just hasn't been fulfilled YET." ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Chara Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Chara: [B][QUOTE]Originally posted by John: Convenient but technically unassailable, except on the grounds that it makes the position tautological. It is true no matter what, by design. Hardly convincing. [/b][/quote] I'm sorry John, but I didn't understand this statement. Can you simplify it for me?[/B][/QUOTE] Your statement that the prophecy hasn't been fullfilled yet makes the prophecy tautological. That is, true by definition. 1=1 and 2=2 are tautologies. You can't argue against them, but at the same time they really don't mean much. In other words, the prophecy is insulated from reality. Tyre could grow to be a megapolis occupying the whole planet yet that fact would not damage the prophecy. I could say that eventually I will be crowned King of the United States and simply dismiss criticism with "Wait and see. Eventually it will happen." I doubt anyone would take me seriously, but that is very much the position taken when you say that "well, it just hasn't been fulfilled YET." [/B][/QUOTE] I think you read something into my statement that wasn't there .... I said that the prophecy had not been completely fulfilled. There is no "yet" there. I think you expected me to say "yet". ![]()
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gene90 Member (Idle past 4150 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]What is ironic is that the NT mentions Tyre as a functioning community, thereby rubbing salt in old Ezekial's prophetic wounds.[/QUOTE]
[/B] It says that it would be better for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgement than for some. I see several possible interpretations of that. (For example: Which Tyre? Historical or contemporary?) The problem with prophecies (Chara) is that they can be used to support religious views you probably do not subscribe to. I can think of Mormon prophecies that appear to have come to pass. [This message has been edited by gene90, 11-14-2002]
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