Every evolutionist has a chance to win $250,000

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TrueCreation writes:
I'm beginning to wonder why at least 98% of the comments against Hovind are Jokes and not scientific credibility. (Here comes another Joke)

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There's a chemistry joke that goes, "Poor Johnny, poor Johnny, he is no more, what he thought was H₂O was H₂SO₄."Of course, if you don't know a little chemistry it's not funny, because you don't know that H₂SO₄ is sulfuric acid. If you know even less chemistry then you don't know that H₂O is water and the rhyme makes no sense at all.To people unfamiliar with science Hovind's arguments might seem to have merit, but to those familiar with science his contributions are outright laughable. They're so wild and so outlandish they don't merit serious attention. It would make as much sense to rebut the science of the Cow Jumped Over the Moon nursery rhyme. Which has been done by the way, despite photographic evidence to the contrary. I couldn't find the satirical rebuttal, but I did find this cute postscript at http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/2041/heydiddlediddle.htm :The cat was declared a dangerous offender
and is now serving a sentence of
indeterminent length
It took awhile to figure out that Diddle Diddle
was more than just a nickname...The cow has been apprehended
for entering restricted airspace
and is being held for questioning by NASA who
would like to know just how
she managed to get enough
thrust to reach escape velocity...The little dog was impounded for breaking
several noise by-laws
his owners are trying to raise the funds
to get him out of the pound...The dish and the spoon are now living an
alternate lifestyle in an upscale section
of San Francisco where they are active
in the Housewares Pride Movement...--Percy

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[This message has been edited by Percipient, 01-20-2002]

Here's one for you PercyA mathematics professor named Hall,
Possessed an octagonal ball.
The cube of its weight,
Divided by eight.
was 9 times the root of sod all....

From:
http://www.aps.org/apsnews/11855.htmlCole's Lost Soul
by A. P. FrenchThere was a young fellow named Cole
Who ventured too near a black hole.
His dv by dt
Was quite wondrous to see
But now all that's left is his soul.

quote:

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
2) Hubble redshift
--There are many explanations of the hubble redshift while little is known about it creationist cosmologists have the interperetation on the causes of the red/blue shifts. One possible explination is the 'stretching of the heavens' as it indicates in the bible, as it is believed the physics of the red shift is a cause of a sort of 'Doppler effect' in light. (I`m no cosmologist though!)

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You got that round the wrong way bud the Doppler effect causes the red shift....Any idea where I can read a good scientific account of this stretching of the heavens?

The Buffalo TheoryA herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, we all know, kills brain cells, but naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

"You got that round the wrong way bud the Doppler effect causes the red shift...."
--Yes I am aware of that, I should have emphesized, I was making you aware that I am familiar with the red shift as well as the existance of the blue shift."Any idea where I can read a good scientific account of this stretching of the heavens?"
--What would you mean? This was a reference from the bible as it says all through it that when God created the heavens he 'streched' them. I guess a scientific account would be the theory of an expanding universe.------------------

"In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."
--LOL ------------------

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 01-21-2002]

quote:

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Originally posted by TrueCreation:
Yes I am aware of that, I should have emphesized, I was making you aware that I am familiar with the red shift as well as the existance of the blue shift.

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But bud you got the causal relationship round the wrong way. A causes B is a different statement to B causes A.

quote:

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What would you mean? This was a reference from the bible as it says all through it that when God created the heavens he 'streched' them. I guess a scientific account would be the theory of an expanding universe.

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Ah so is that where we are to look for scientific accounts of phenomena from a creationist standpoint? A religious tract?You said that the Hubble red shift could be explained (to tie in with a special creation ex nihilo 4,500 years ago presumably) by a stretching of the heavens. Since current cosmological models based on an expanding universe give an age of somewhat more than 4,500 years please explain where I can read about this stretching of the heavens as a scientific theory.

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[This message has been edited by joz, 01-22-2002]

Sorry, Percy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Percipient:

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Schraf writes:
Very enjoyable discussion, Mark! After some of the knee-deep crapola I have been slogging through, er, elsewhere in this forum, it is truly refreshing to have an actual back and forth exchange of ideas with someone intelligent.

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Ahem!

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--Percy (Guideline Gremlin)

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LOL!!!

"LOL!!!"
--This is how you people attempt to get a higher post count isn't it, cheaters! ------------------

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This message is a reply to:
	Message 130 by nator, posted 01-22-2002 2:27 PM		nator has not replied

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Peek

I just stumbled onto this at http://bibleandscience.com/index.htm :UPCOMING CREATION DEBATEDr. Stephen C. Meyers will be debating Dr. Kent Hovind on February 23, 2002 from 2 to 4 PM. The debate is at East Juniata High School, RR 2 Box 2411, McAlisterville, PA 17049. It is about one hour northwest of Harrisburg.New Directions: From I-81 Harrisburg, take Rt.322 West. Take the Thompsontown/East Salem Exit. At the stop sign, turn right on to Rt. 333. As you travel on Rt 333, it changes to Rt. 235. Follow 235 North into McAlisterville (6 1/2 miles from exit). At the square in McAlisterville, you will come to a traffic light. Turn right on to Rt. 35 North, and follow it for 3.4 miles to East Juniata High School which is on the left. A Good News Lutheran Church is on the right.Topics for Debate:
1. What does Genesis One mean?
2. Literal interpretation of the Bible, especially Genesis One.
3. Inspiration of Scripture: Is the Bible scientifically accurate?
4. How old is the earth or universe?
5. Was there death before sin?
6. Was Noah's flood local or global?
7. Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Moose------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

quote:

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Originally posted by joz:
Say what I want huh...

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He reserves the right to choose the panel that judges the submissions...Presumably to screen out anyone who would actually know empirical evidence if it bit them in the arse...

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He reserves the right to screen the evidence presented and only show the panel that evidence he chooses to...

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I`m starting to wonder...

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a)will the panel consist of a bunch of dyed in the wool creationists?

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b)will he accept and pass along any evidence that counters his claims?

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c)does the $250,000 even exist?

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The offer is to be short spurious....

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Well if the panel would consist of people who believe that evolution is fact and not belief you said it your self, I don't say evolution isn't true, I say it isn't proven, I don't say creation is true, I say I believe it.Evolution is a belief with no scientific evidence, only more theories. If you can convince Dr. Hovind that evolution is fact/science, he will pay you $250,000. He's not saying come to me with a theory, everything you have is theory, he even calls creation a theory, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you're right. I don't believe in evolution, that doesn't mean that I am right. I believe in "The Theory of Creation" and I say to you PROVE IT WRONG! Stop replying with more lies and bashes on Dr. Hovind. If you want to bash him, he will pay you to do it.'...this is my open challenge to debate any one (or group of people)** who believe in evolution. I will even pay them $100 if they will debate.....' - Dr. Kent Hovind
http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=25Typical silly reasons why evolutionists refuse to debate creationists:1. There is no debate; evolution is a fact- all scientists accept this.
2. Creation science is not science.
3. We don’t want to give a platform to creationists. Creation belongs in the church and evolution in science class.
4. The average audience doesn’t understand the complexities of evolution so it is hard for an evolutionist to explain in the short time allotted. This makes it appear the creationists have won. [Hovind translation of this response-Evolutionists are smart and everyone who does not believe in evolution is too dumb to realize this.]
5. Hovind is a professional debater who gets paid to do this. I’m just a teacher/researcher. I have never had a debate class in my life. I don’t get paid to debate, I will pay them!
6. Dr. Walter Brown has a list of other common excuses (and a well reasoned response to each) listed at www.creationscience.com/ p. 319

quote:

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Originally posted by Christian1:
Well if the panel would consist of people who believe that evolution is fact and not belief you said it your self, I don't say evolution isn't true, I say it isn't proven, I don't say creation is true, I say I believe it.

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LUD: Conversly,if the pannel consists only of his creationists buddies,whatever evidence thats gets in front of them will be dismissed as a matter of course.

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Evolution is a belief with no scientific evidence, only more theories. If you can convince Dr. Hovind that evolution is fact/science, he will pay you $250,000. He's not saying come to me with a theory, everything you have is theory, he even calls creation a theory, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean you're right. I don't believe in evolution, that doesn't mean that I am right. I believe in "The Theory of Creation" and I say to you PROVE IT WRONG! Stop replying with more lies and bashes on Dr. Hovind. If you want to bash him, he will pay you to do it.

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LUD:"Dr" Hovind(phd in a barn,btw) does not believe that creation is a theory...he's convinced that its a fact and he says so in his seminar at least 12 times. What he calls a theory is his particular snowball from heaven shindig to explain how the flood suposadly came about. The conclusion i initially drew on creationists by and large was largely based on him,which was not very flattering,lemme tell you that. Fortunately,i've spoken to creationists who actually take a scientific approach as opposed to a dogmatic one like he does. It is sad though for creationists that with people like Hovind as "friends",they dont need any "ennemies" to do them in.

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'...this is my open challenge to debate any one (or group of people)** who believe in evolution. I will even pay them $100 if they will debate.....' - Dr. Kent Hovind
http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=25

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LUD:hehehe...yeah right...I would pay 100$ to get the chance to debate him in person and i've told him so in an E-mail and then a writen letter. And i have yet to get a reply,7 months later...

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Typical silly reasons why evolutionists refuse to debate creationists:

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1. There is no debate; evolution is a fact- all scientists accept this.

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LUD:Wrong...LIFE is a fact...evolution is just a theory as to how Life came to look like it dos today...and most scientists know THAT.

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2. Creation science is not science.

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LUD:Wrong...Creation Science that does not rely on the Bible as evidence IS science...its not very good science but its science nevertheless.

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3. We don’t want to give a platform to creationists. Creation belongs in the church and evolution in science class.

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LUD:Creationists are not wanting for platforms in the US and in the '20,they were doing their damndest to make sure that EVOLUTIONISTS didn't get a platform...at least in schools.

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4. The average audience doesn’t understand the complexities of evolution so it is hard for an evolutionist to explain in the short time allotted. This makes it appear the creationists have won. [Hovind translation of this response-Evolutionists are smart and everyone who does not believe in evolution is too dumb to realize this.]

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LUD:wrong...the principle of evolution is quite simple...the mechanics ARE complex,like most science and does require some time and a basic degree of scientific literacy to be understood. Your argument is akin to saying that if i cant say,make you an expert in the field of quantum mechanics in a 30 minute session,that either means that you're stupid or that my "science" is just a fraud. Dont make it sound like evolutionists are trying to hide from scrutiny. They are very vocal and eager to talk about all their discoveries...after a while,its more likely that YOU'll be the one fleeing them because you just cant get them to shut up about it...

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5. Hovind is a professional debater who gets paid to do this. I’m just a teacher/researcher. I have never had a debate class in my life. I don’t get paid to debate, I will pay them!

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LUD:Most serious scientists in the field of evolution dont debate Hovind not because they're afraid of him but because they're afraid it will be a complete waste of time. Hovind is stubornly illeterate when it comes to evolution science and constantly misrepresent the positions of his opponents in debates. Scientists dont try to get into debates on evolution with maytag repair men and pro wrestlers either for the exact same reason...complete waste of time.

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6. Dr. Walter Brown has a list of other common excuses (and a well reasoned response to each) listed at www.creationscience.com/ p. 319

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LUD:when i get back,i'll have to examine them as well...my guess is that they'll be equally ludicrous allegations

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[This message has been edited by LudvanB, 02-12-2002]

The problem is that $250k is not enough to pay the court fees it would take to get Mr. Hovind to pay up *after* you prove evolution is a fact.

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[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-12-2002]