Do we affect the" physical " indepentent of the laws of physics

If so why would a mammel that was made with the instinct to survive give up all instinct and sacrifice itself for love.

That just illustrates to me that the definition of force you are trying to convey is narrow and limited.

Your question is about the laws of physics. In physics "force" has a clear and unambiguous definition. It enables us to say things like, "If you push on an unimpeded 1 kilogram mass for 1 second with a force of 1 Newton it will accelerate at a rate of 1 meter/sec2, and at the end of the 1 second of acceleration it will be traveling at a rate of 1 meter/sec."

In essence, your question asks if it is possible to do things like make the 1 kilogram mass move at 1 meter/sec without exerting a force on it. As far as we know, there is no physical or chemical activity in human beings that violates the laws of physics.

Well then let us come to an understanding with this force business.

It would appear to me that it may only be possible to express "force" as it is "used" in physics in a non writen or non verbal context and only be clearly understood in this form in math.

Every time any of you have attempted to describe force to me you have had to cross your line. That just illustrates to me that the definition of force you are trying to convey is narrow and limited.

1.61803 writes:Hi tater,
The forces of nature are those that bind atoms,quarks and the force of electromagatism and gravity. Some how the emergence of matter and energy has become sentient to the point of comptemplating it's own existance in the form of human beings.There is a element of randomness in the universe which prevades reality on a level that escapes sciences ability to predict. But there is also a element of order and predictabilty which allows for matter and energy to go from entrophy to order and order to entrophy. The ultimate recycler of the most sublime.Everything that exist is a part of a whole. The brain, the mind, the iron in your redblood cells, the glucose in your body, the plants that produced it, the light from the sun.All of it a cascade of phenomenon that allow for existance of something rather than nothing. How can one say that they are divorce of this system. It is impossible to step outside of the mosaic of what the cosmos is composed of. You are but a product of those forces, and the choices you make, your freewill, your soul, your mind a natural property of the universe. Call it God, call it nature. We ultimately must be recycled back into this system from whence we came.

Brokenpride writes:Us humans truly are outside the laws of nature

2ice_baked_taters writes:No, I have asked nothing of the kind. I have also never said or suggested that we violate the laws of physics.

What I did say is that we affect things independant of the laws of physics.

In other words we are a force that works through the physical world that science has yet found a way to describe.

2ice_baked_taters writes:So you accept gravity because it can be measured and detected but cannot be shown.

You accept electromagnetism because we have found ways to measure and detect it. But still something you cannot show me. It is not a physical thing.

I do not see our effect any differently.

As a side thought. It is interesting that the more we use physics to examine the "physical" the more removed from the physical is seems to become.

You accept electromagnetism because we have found ways to measure and detect it. But still something you cannot show me. It is not a physical thing

As I suggested the first time I replied to you in this thread, it might be a good idea if you provided an example of something you do that is not according to physical laws.

I have an idea. It is there. I choose not to share it's nature with you other than that I have an idea. You must believe I had one to accept that it was ever there. Trust...or distrust...questions of motivation.