Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,483 Year: 3,740/9,624 Month: 611/974 Week: 224/276 Day: 64/34 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The scientific method is based on a logical fallacy
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 70 (375709)
01-09-2007 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
01-08-2007 3:34 PM


Hey, sub. Interesting choice of topic. I wonder how much mileage we'll be able to get out of it?
Part of the problem is that you are confusing deductive logic, the type that is studied in philosophy and mathematics courses, with inductive logic, which is more relevant to science.
To take your example, what we start with is (a slight modification of) your hypothesis, It has rained.
So to test this, we say,
If it has rained, the roof will be wet.
The roof is wet.
Therefore, it may indeed have rained.
What we are really doing is testing the contrapositive:
If the roof is not wet, then it has not rained.
The roof is wet.
Therefore, we cannot conclude that it is false that it has rained.
The hypothesis that it has rained has been tentatively confirmed, pending further studies.
-----
Let's look at another example:
Hypothesis: All ravens are black.
(I like this one, because I try to expose my Math Concepts students to the raven paradox.)
So how do we determine this is true? We certainly cannot examine all ravens. The only thing we can do is,
If all ravens are black, then the very next raven I see will be black.
So then I examine the next raven. It is black. Well, this sure as heck does not prove that all ravens are black in a deductive sense, but it does increase my confidence (a little) that maybe all ravens are black.
So then I look at the next raven. And then the next. After examining 1000 random ravens from different areas from two different continents, I find that each and every one of them is black. Now, from a purely deductive standpoint, I have proved nothing. However, I think that we can see that it is becoming quire reasonable to believe that maybe all ravens are black after all. In fact, we can even begin to put error bars on our conclusion; using relatively simple statistics, we can use the observed fact that, to date, all 1000 ravens that we have seen are black to estimate a maximum for the proportion of ravens that are not black.
Now suppose that we come across a white raven. So now we have a scientific falsification of our simple hypothesis that all ravens are black. We now have to do one of three things:
(1) Find out whether we made an experimental or observational error:
That's not a raven, moron, that's a swan!
(2) Modify the original theory (and then test the modifications):
All ravens are black except those that suffer from white fungus albinism.
(3) Abandon the theory altogether under the weight of contrary evidence:
Out of 1000 ravens in the sample, 700 were black, and 300 were white. I guess that not all ravens are black after all.
-------
Now, getting back to the former example.
If it has rained, the roof will be wet.
The roof is wet.
Therefore, we can tentatively retain the theory that it has rained.
Now, a Biblical anti-precipitationalist can object to this by, for example, positing, the roof is wet because the owner hosed it down. Well, this hypothesis can, itself, be tested. Would the owner have a motivation for hosing the roof (say, as protection of an approaching wild fire)? Do we still see a hose connected to the outdoor tap?
Also, we can further test the original hypothesis:
If it has rained, the neighbor's roof will also be wet.
Also, the trees across the street will be dripping.
And the rutted road on the next block will have mud puddles.
And so forth.
Now these predictions are confirmed, and the anti-percipitationalist offers counter-explanations: the neighbor installed a fire-sprinker system in the ceiling that burst, soaking through to the roof; the trees aren't dripping rain water, they are dripping sap, and the puddles in the next street are because someone on that street has overfilled their swimming pool.
Well, we note a few things here. First, we then go and test each and every one of these counter-explanations to try to find whether they are plausible. Second, we note that the anti-precipitationalist has to come up with ad hoc explanations for a wide variety of data, while the Theory of Recent Precipitation is a single explanation that unites this seemingly unrelated variety of phenomena (this is called conscilience, a good word -- I am currently reading Stephen Jay Gould's The Structure of Evolutionary Theory).
And of course the anti-precipitationalist then points out that the basketball court is not wet. Oops! A potential falsification. Now the precipitationalist must try to come up with an explanation that fits the theory: is the basketball court covered? Is the ground composed of a material that dries out quickly?
Of course, in sight of the bulk of data that supports the Theory of Recent Precipitation, one seemingly contradiction is not going to discount the theory immediately. But it does open up a line of further investigation: can we determine why the basketball court is dry? We might discover something exciting about basketball courts! Or, are there other phenomena that falsify the Theory of Recent Precipitation? Once contradicting data becomes too numerous to ignore, people will start to look for an alternate hypothesis to explain the phenomenon of Widespread Wetness.
----
Heh. This went a bit long. Summary: there is a difference between deductive and inductive logic.
Edited by Chiroptera, : Typos. More than one.

I have always preferred, as guides to human action, messy hypothetical imperatives like the Golden Rule, based on negotiation, compromise and general respect, to the Kantian categorical imperatives of absolute righteousness, in whose name we so often murder and maim until we decide that we had followed the wrong instantiation of the right generality. -- Stephen Jay Gould

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 01-08-2007 3:34 PM subbie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by platypus, posted 01-10-2007 2:43 PM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 13 by ShootingStar, posted 01-28-2007 4:16 AM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 14 by ShootingStar, posted 01-28-2007 4:17 AM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 22 by sinequanon, posted 12-25-2007 11:11 AM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 70 (380659)
01-28-2007 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by ShootingStar
01-28-2007 4:17 AM


Re: Kein Problem
Biblical anti-precipitationalists claim it contradicts the literal account of Widespread Wetness as it is written in their scriptures. It also removes God from the picture. That is why they want "equal time" and include the "Intelligent Bedwetter" theory into the public school curriculum.

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ShootingStar, posted 01-28-2007 4:17 AM ShootingStar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 70 (380661)
01-28-2007 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by ShootingStar
01-28-2007 4:16 AM


quote:
In any event, I agree with Dan Carroll. Most conclusions require a larger variety of observations to test all the possible loopholes of a theory before it is accepted as truth.
Which is pretty much what I said in my post, isn't it?

This world can take my money and time/ But it sure can't take my soul. -- Joe Ely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ShootingStar, posted 01-28-2007 4:16 AM ShootingStar has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 70 (443484)
12-25-2007 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by The Agnostic
12-25-2007 10:21 AM


Though not finding fossils wouldn't prove they didn't live there.
Unless there were very good reasons, according to our current understanding, that we really should be able to find fossils if they lived there. Then not finding fossils would be evidence that they didn't actually live there. Contrary to some peoples' conceptions, it is possible to prove a negative.
Of course, considering how rare fossils can be, and how difficult it can be to find fossils, then you are probably correct in this case: not finding fossils would not necessarily mean that they didn't live there.

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by The Agnostic, posted 12-25-2007 10:21 AM The Agnostic has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 70 (443499)
12-25-2007 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by sinequanon
12-25-2007 11:11 AM


Good post Chiroptera.
Thanks. I'm quite happy with it.
-
(4) Stick with the theory despite the weight of contrary evidence.
For example, rather than abandon the law of gravity, claim dark matter exists. So instead of evidence driving the theory, the theory starts driving the evidence.
What "weight of contrary evidence" do you see in this example?
Let's examine another historical analogy. In the 19th century, it was discovered that the motion of Uranus did not obey Newton's Universal Law of Gravity. One could have decided that this was sufficient "weight of contrary evidence" to abandon his law of gravity, but instead it was hypothesized that an as yet unknown planet was causing perturbations in Uranus' orbit -- sort of a 19th century version of "dark matter".
Then the perturbations were analyzed carefully to give some indication as the the possible locations of the hypothesized planet, and a search for the planet was carried out. A new planet, Neptune, was in fact discovered, and it was precisely in the right locations to give the observed perturbations of the orbit of Uranus.
I suppose that this could count as "sticking to the theory despite the weight of contrary evidence", but seeing that they were actually correct it seems to me that something far more interesting was going on.

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by sinequanon, posted 12-25-2007 11:11 AM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by sinequanon, posted 12-25-2007 12:24 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 70 (443555)
12-25-2007 4:21 PM


Today's Christmas hip tip:
We're now on a third page of short one-point-at-a-time posts that compose a barely coherent conversation.
When the message board degenerates into a real-time chat room, that's usually a pretty good sign that it's time to log off for an hour and think over how you really want to respond.

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 70 (443571)
12-25-2007 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by sinequanon
12-25-2007 12:24 PM


Now that I can get a word in edgewise....
Most of what you have said here has been responded to by others; I'm not sure whether it'll be productive to repeat what has been said, but I will give a few of my thoughts that I intended when I first read this post.
-
but instead it was hypothesized that an as yet unknown planet was causing perturbations in Uranus' orbit -- sort of a 19th century version of "dark matter".
Not quite. In your example of Uranus, no "new" science is being proposed. The adequacy of the law is truly being tested.
"Dark matter", on the other hand is very much about banking on "new" science.
Sure, but dark matter is really no new science, either, not really. When it was observed that the rotation of the galaxies and their movements within clusters couldn't be explained by means of gravity, it was hypothesized that there was matter that we cannot see -- just like a previously unseen planet was hypothesized to explain the anomalies of the orbit of Uranus. We know that mass has a gravitational effect that can influence the motion of other matter -- it's not new science to assume that it's a matter of as yet unseen matter that is causing the discrepancies in the motions of the galaxies -- indeed, this is actually pretty old science.
Incidentally, dark matter isn't a completely out of the blue idea. It turns out that astrophysicists can model the motions of the galaxies by using a cetain distribution of matter -- there was no guarantee that this would work. It could have been that no distribution of matter would have provided the right gravitational forces to explain the discrepancies in the motions of the galaxies; that there is a way of distributing matter to account for the motions is itself evidence that this might be correct. It would be good, of course, to find out exactly what this dark matter is (if it indeed exists), but astrophysicists are working on this right now.
-
Let's now look at a different anomaly, namely the anomalies in the orbit of Mercury that were known at the beginning of the 20th century. This couldn't be explained with the science as it was known at that time. Some people did believe that Newton's Law of Gravity had to be modified -- there were attempts to explain Mercury's orbit with a law of gravity that wasn't quite inverse square. Finally, Newton's Law of Gravity was replaced -- by General Relativity which was originally formulated by Einstein for entirely other reasons, but which turned out to be able to explain Mercury's orbit. So we did have a falsification of Newton's Law of Gravity -- namely by replacing it with a theory that explained everything that Newton could explain, but also explained things that Newton could not.
We may be in a similar situation in regards to so-called dark energy. It appears that rate of expansion of the universe is increasing. This is, indeed, new science, but it is not new science made up to support an old theory, but new science that is indicated by observation. It is an observational fact that the expansion of the universe is increasing. So we can't escape from this new science.
The question is what is causing this. "Dark energy" is the label used to refer to this, but its nature is still a mystery. All we know is that something is causing this expansion. This expansion can be modeled (within observational accuracy, that is) by including an extra term in the equations of General Relativity. But so far it is still unknown whether this is because this increasing expansion is a fundamental fact about our universe, as indicated by the "improved" General Relativity equations, or whether there is some other cause for this expansion which is "accidentally" modeled by this slight modification to GR. But no one is just proposing these things as a way of "avoiding" throwing out a theory -- they are actively trying to understand it, and it may very well be that GR will have to be modified or replaced by a better theory.
-
In fact, we already know that there will have to be a replacement. General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are, right now, inconsistent with one another. So General Relativity is, in a sense, already falsified, and everyone acknowledges it. This is what research in so-called "quantum gravity" is all about -- to come up with a new theory of gravity that will be consistent with quantum mechanics. No one is trying to save the old theory of gravity -- indeed, people are actively trying to find a better theory with which to replace it.
-
My apologies to cavediver and Son Goku for any errors or oversimplifications in this post.

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by sinequanon, posted 12-25-2007 12:24 PM sinequanon has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 70 (443573)
12-25-2007 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by cavediver
12-25-2007 4:28 PM


Question about UK maths:
Hey, cavediver, I have a question about the teaching of college level mathematics in the UK.
sinequanon has already shown some confusion about what should be elementary mathematics. Is it really the case that geometry series, in particular, the geometric series test and the formula
sum from 0 to infinity of rn = 1/(1-r) if |r|< 1
isn't covered in a basic calculus or analysis course?

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by cavediver, posted 12-25-2007 4:28 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by cavediver, posted 12-25-2007 7:13 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024