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Author | Topic: Dissecting the Evolutionist Approach to Explanation and Persuation | |||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 384 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
By the way, when there's something I don't understand, I really appreciate it when someone is willing to take baby steps with me. Silas did it for me on a couple occasions, and more recently cavediver. I think that is a very important point. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
By the way, when there's something I don't understand, I really appreciate it when someone is willing to take baby steps with me. Silas did it for me on a couple occasions, and more recently cavediver. It's all in the tone, Percy. If the intent seems friendly, that's one thing. But this was not friendly on the part of some. Your tone, however, was not condescending at all. But that's just my view from outside from someone who didn't participate in the argument with Faith directly. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 10:59 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
This would be a good topic if somebody wants to start it. I start too many as it is.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
The DNA arrangement could be explained by special creation just as well: God being economic. That is a commonly made assertion, do you have anything to actually support it? Why would gods economy be so haphazard and inconsistent? Why have patterns of relatedness visible at effectively functionless bases, i.e. the third codon base for most amino acids? TTFN, WK
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5185 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
robinrohan,
The DNA arrangement could be explained by special creation just as well He could have put the fossils there too, that nullifies that argument. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Why have patterns of relatedness visible at effectively functionless bases, i.e. the third codon base for most amino acids? I can't discuss this. I don't know anything about it. But somebody mentioned some kind of messed-up gene having to do with some vitamin that appears in both apes and man. That's evidence for the evo side, I suppose.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
He could have put the fossils there too, that nullifies that argument. That's not the same idea at all.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5185 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
robinrohan,
That's not the same idea at all. It's exactly the same idea. You are coming up with an ad hoc argument in order to make fossil evidence appear better than DNA/molecular. By exactly the same logic, exactly the same ad hoc argument can be made to explain fossil evidences. If that's the case, which it is, then you haven't made the fossil evidence any more palatable than the molecular. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
It's exactly the same idea. There's no reason for those fossils to be lying about. There is a reason for genotypes and phenotypes however: being fruitful and multiplying. There are two possible explanations: evolution or special creation. Both are radical and strange.
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5185 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
robin,
There's no reason for those fossils to be lying about. God put them there. Same as the DNA. Both equally (in)valid arguments. Mark This message has been edited by mark24, 03-09-2006 12:49 PM There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
God put them there. Why?
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Percy Member Posts: 22359 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
robinrohan writes: Let's say we didn't have any of that. The DNA arrangement could be explained by special creation just as well: God being economic. Why choose one explanation over another? Is the reasoning that special creation is incredible? Therefore, evolution must be true? That won't do. This is another point that is often raised. If we can agree that "The Lord moves in mysterious ways," then we could say that no matter what the details of life (or anything else), it is consistent with creation by God. In other words, I don't believe that there is anthing we could find where we could reasonably conclude, "God would never have done this, it must have happened without his guidance." But there is much we could find that would not be consistent with evolution. Mark has often stressed that modern genetic analysis of relatedness largely agrees with classification by appearance and anatomy that was established well over a century ago before we even knew there was such a thing as DNA. If they didn't agree, poof, evolution as a theory disappears! Does this make sense so far? If so then there are a couple of follow up points. First, since God can do anything, there's no evidence you can supply that argues for creation by God. If whales have genes for legs, then that's just the way God did it. If whales don't have genes for legs, then that's just the way God did it. If pi is 3.14... then that's the way God designed the universe. If pi is 3.0 then that's the way God designed the universe. Second, and this follows directly from the first point, evolution is different from creation because it can be disproven. There is evidence we can find, like the lack of agreement between genetics and biological classifications, that would mean evolution was false. If we found dinosaurs in all layers, it would mean evolution was false. If radiometric dating revealed that all layers were only a few thousand years old, it would mean evolution was false. Because there is no argument that falsifies divine creation, it isn't usually discussed as a scientific possibility. It is only when creationists advance specific scenarios that God must have used when he created, such as vapor canopies, hydrologic sorting or catastrophic plate tectonics, that science can be applied. So to finally address your point, no, we don't believe evolution is true because creation is incredible. The creation possibility (the "that's just the way God did it" variety) doesn't get considered within science because it transcends science and cannot be studied by science. We accept evolution as a scientific theory because of the supporting evidence. This post is an attempt to apply the lessons learned in this thread, so give me a grade. No need to be kind, I don't need grade inflation, I'm trying to learn. --Percy
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5185 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
robin,
why? Because he wanted to, same as the DNA. "why" is irrelevant. Mark This message has been edited by mark24, 03-09-2006 12:56 PM There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
DNA has an obvious function; fossils do not. There's no reason for them that can be linked to human life and so they are better evidence in that sense, and also more direct evidence.
Without the fossils, we have mostly an argument from incredulity. abe: Evolution must be true because special creation is incredible. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 11:56 AM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-09-2006 11:58 AM
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mark24 Member (Idle past 5185 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
robin,
DNA has an obvious function; fossils do not. Utterly, utterly irrelevant. If god can create DNA, then he can create fossils in situ if she so wishes. Can't an all powerful god that can create DNA create a world with fossils in place? Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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