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Author Topic:   Dissecting the Evolutionist Approach to Explanation and Persuation
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 211 of 255 (293693)
03-09-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by robinrohan
03-09-2006 1:50 PM


Re: molecular?
That is not a reasonable action to attribute to the traditional idea of the Almighty.
Already rebutted. Given the idea of a deity whose actions may not make sense to us - the traditional idea of the Judeo-Christian God - there's no action we can propose that would not be reasonable for him to take.
God is already defined as a being whose actions may appear as unreasonable to us. Therefore asserting that fake fossils would be "unreasonable" is meaningless.
You have to do better than simply stating an action is not "reasonable". The traditional idea of God makes it certain that he's going to take actions that appear unreasonable to us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by robinrohan, posted 03-09-2006 1:50 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by robinrohan, posted 03-09-2006 2:01 PM crashfrog has not replied
 Message 215 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 2:01 PM crashfrog has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 212 of 255 (293694)
03-09-2006 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by jar
03-09-2006 11:19 AM


harassment
I answered you adequately Jar and there is no other answer and your repeating your question is a perfect example of your usual tactics of harassment and bullying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 11:19 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 2:48 PM Faith has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 213 of 255 (293695)
03-09-2006 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
03-09-2006 1:55 PM


Re: How the fossils got there
The complete ignorance about what creationists believe about what God would have created that is being shown on this thread at least must illustrate how evos don't pay the slightest attention to creos.
Creationists are the ones that gave us the idea of God putting the fossils there, in the first place. They're the ones that came up with it; we're just repeating it.
All you've proven is that you're the one who doesn't pay enough attention to the comments of other creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 1:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 214 of 255 (293696)
03-09-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by crashfrog
03-09-2006 1:57 PM


Re: molecular?
God is already defined as a being whose actions may appear as unreasonable to us.
If you want to define the traditional concept of God that way, then the God I don't believe in is different from the God you don't believe in, and I think a little religious tolerance is in order here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by mark24, posted 03-09-2006 2:04 PM robinrohan has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 215 of 255 (293697)
03-09-2006 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by crashfrog
03-09-2006 1:57 PM


Case in point for thread topic
Robinrohan may not know the Biblical basis for what he is saying but he is correct and I've said the same thing in Message 209.
I propose this little exchange about what God might have done as an Exhibit for the problem that this thread is about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:57 PM crashfrog has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5185 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 216 of 255 (293698)
03-09-2006 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by robinrohan
03-09-2006 2:01 PM


Re: molecular?
robin,
If you want to define the traditional concept of God that way, then the God I don't believe in is different from the God you don't believe in, and I think a little religious tolerance is in order here.
Same to you, you have no idea what my "real" god finds reasonable.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
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AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 217 of 255 (293699)
03-09-2006 2:05 PM


Topic drifting....
The idea of the topic is to dissect the Evolutionist Approach to Explanation and Persuasion. Whilst it is to be expected that there would be some engagement of the Evolutionist Approach, the thread has stopped being about dissection but is rapidly going down the path of becoming another free for all all-purpose evolution debate.
Perhaps we can look back on the last few pages and try and work out what happened, and where things went from metadebating to debating.
Please check the relevancy of your posts to the OP before you hit Submit.
This message has been edited by AdminModulous, Thu, 09-March-2006 07:07 PM

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Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 218 of 255 (293701)
03-09-2006 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Ooook!
03-09-2006 1:41 PM


Re: Strands of evidence or a framework?
I think that you fall into the same trap as creationists do. I suppose what I want to know is why.
Why did I fall into a trap? That's a trick question. I deny falling into any trap.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 219 of 255 (293703)
03-09-2006 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by crashfrog
03-09-2006 1:58 PM


Re: How the fossils got there
What creationists Frog? You mean those back before Darwin? No current creationist has such a belief that I have ever seen and this is a sad case of misrepresentation that obfuscates the argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by crashfrog, posted 03-09-2006 1:58 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 220 of 255 (293704)
03-09-2006 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by AdminModulous
03-09-2006 2:05 PM


Re: Topic drifting....
My Message 215 tags this particular side wrangle as a perfect case of evolutionist misbehavior in the conduct of debate with creationists, as their misrepresentation of the creationist view of God's work means no communication is possible.
It helps that a noncreationist is the one who got targeted by it, showing that this is a genuine problem and not a subjective creationist gripe.
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-09-2006 02:14 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 221 of 255 (293706)
03-09-2006 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Percy
03-09-2006 11:43 AM


Re: Another Area for Improvement
Right, we've identified "baby steps" as an inadvisable approach for evolutionists to use. So after Person A has repeated that four pizzas is enough for the sixth or seventh time without addressing anything Person B has said, what is the correct response for Person B?
This is a misrepresentation because although I do repeat my point to what has appeared to be a gallery of intentionally deaf ears, I do also usually expand on my point, reason for my point, try to bring in aspects of the situation that further the point. I didn't do much of this on mark24's thread because I didn't want to debate anything at all in the first place, and shouldn't have taken the bait. But I did a lot of it on the old Sedimentation Great Debate thread and many others since then. Mostly I don't bother arguing science much at all because of the closed minds of the evos.
Also, despite the constant assurances that my point has been understood and has become irritatingly repetitive, I remain unconvinced that it has been understood in many cases. I still don't think anybody has honestly thought through my endlessly reiterated points about the strata, and the evidence in this current side issue that evolutionists are willing to play fast and loose with what creationists believe about how fossils could have gotten there is an example of how evolutionists just don't care what creationists think.
Oh and while I'm here, allow me to agree with RR that for the most part you have been fairminded on this thread, and my complaints have not been directed at you but at the whole evo mentality.
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-09-2006 02:25 PM
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-09-2006 02:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 11:43 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Percy, posted 03-09-2006 7:45 PM Faith has replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 222 of 255 (293710)
03-09-2006 2:35 PM


Temporary topic closure coming in 10 minutes
Maybe it will calm things down and get some focus back on the real topic theme.
My plan of the moment is to leave the topic closed for about 3 hours. Other admins may decide to reopen it sooner.
Anyway, once the topic is reopened, how about fewer but better messages? Let's stop exchanging one or two liners.
Adminnemooseus

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jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 223 of 255 (293714)
03-09-2006 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Faith
03-09-2006 1:57 PM


Re: harassment
Well, perhaps I didn't understand your answer. Perhaps you can show me where it is answered?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 1:57 PM Faith has not replied

LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4666 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 224 of 255 (293765)
03-09-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
03-09-2006 1:55 PM


Re: How the fossils got there
Faith writes:
There is no way God would have just PUT fossils there.
Why not? (probably off-topic anyway)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 1:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 03-09-2006 7:43 PM LinearAq has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 225 of 255 (293774)
03-09-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by LinearAq
03-09-2006 7:32 PM


Re: How the fossils got there
1) Because Creation was finished in the sixth day.
2) It is out of keeping with the character of God in the Bible. And please don't ask me to prove his character as it is based on the entire Bible and would be a huge undertaking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by LinearAq, posted 03-09-2006 7:32 PM LinearAq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by LinearAq, posted 03-10-2006 11:27 AM Faith has replied

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