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Author Topic:   Justification of Science?
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 16 of 39 (406959)
06-23-2007 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by WS-JW
06-23-2007 2:10 AM


If you shut the door to your room, and think of these things, you come to the conclusion you were made and there is a God

No I don't. But then my room has a biology textbook in it.

It's shocking to think you evolved from non-thinking matter isn't it? that is soil, water etc.

No, not particularly.

You're easily shocked.

Well of course it is. Paper does not write books. Authors write books. Especially 3 dimensional code, such as our genetic DNA code.

"3 dimensional code"? And there was I thinking it was linear.

On the size of a pin head that is the sperm. Of course these things don't arise by blind chance.

Of course they don't. They evolved.

I mean it's simply so obvious. But they are taught in schools that it arose on it's own in all seriousness. And now anything supernatural is not science. Every cell has to have 2000 perfect fits of "gloves" for it to work. You are made of trillions. Now we know there is no chance of this happening.

Who is this "we", paleface? Why does it not include biologists, who actually study the phenomena you're talking about?

No scientist leaves stuff to evolve. They use directional input to do things.

But this is not true. Many scientists leave stuff to evolve.

So we know the creationist formula is right.

Who is this "we"? Why does it not include biologists, who actually study the phenomena you're talking about?

Because where Time = infinity, there is a defective formula. Infinte time? But I thought there was just billionso of years? Only God the eternal one can do things in his mind, in eternity, oh thats right, he did. Not point in philopsaphising on "non God creation and design dellusion". If you thought you'd get out a cadillac just by shaking stuff you'd have to shake a mighty long time wouldn't you? With air tight cyliders etc. Well, the chances you might almost write infinity. But, it hasn't always been there, like God... let alone trillions of cells forming together, plus the blue print code to make more babies on the size of a sperm pin head. Well of course this is obvious stuff. Relax, read your Bible, and discover logical truth.

I can ascribe no meaning to these words. What do you think you're talking about? Does it relate to the OP in some way?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by WS-JW, posted 06-23-2007 2:10 AM WS-JW has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by WS-JW, posted 06-23-2007 2:44 AM Dr Adequate has responded

  
WS-JW
Junior Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 06-04-2007


Message 17 of 39 (406961)
06-23-2007 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Dr Adequate
06-23-2007 2:39 AM


Bless this poor soul, who proves my point, so many people, believe mans word and not Gods, "No I don't. But then my room has a biology textbook in it." I have a Bible my friend.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2007 2:39 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2007 3:53 AM WS-JW has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 18 of 39 (406966)
06-23-2007 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by WS-JW
06-23-2007 2:44 AM


Bless this poor soul, who proves my point, so many people, believe mans word and not Gods,

If God told you that DNA is a "3 dimensional code", then God is a liar. In fact, I see no sign that any of your post has a divine origin; or a Biblical origin, if that is what you mean.

I suspect that like so many before you, you've got muddled between God's opinions and stuff you've made up in your head.

"No I don't. But then my room has a biology textbook in it." I have a Bible my friend.

So do I. But I also have a biology textbook, and I never get them mixed up.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Doddy, posted 06-23-2007 4:48 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 3987 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 19 of 39 (406969)
06-23-2007 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Adequate
06-23-2007 3:53 AM


Dr Adequate writes:

If God told you that DNA is a "3 dimensional code", then God is a liar.

No, God is just playing 'fast and loose' with definitions. DNA, like all molecules, is 3 dimensional. A helix is, after all, a 3d shape.

The genetic code, however, only uses one of these dimensions (well, maybe two...depends if you count the complementary strand as being part of the same code, or just a copy of the other code).


Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

Contributors needed for the following articles: Pleiotropy, Metabolism, Promoter, Invertebrate, Meiosis, DNA, Transcription, Chromosome, Tetrapod, Fossil, Phenotype, Messenger RNA, Mammals, Appendix , Variation, Selection, Gene, Gametogenesis, Homo erectus and others.

Registration not needed, but if desired, register here!


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18309
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 20 of 39 (406990)
06-23-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dragoness
06-23-2007 12:23 AM


Re: Faith
Dragoness writes:

My husband is the Creationist in this family, not me.

I wonder how often this happens. Is this just a friendly difference of opinion between you, or more than that? Is the creationist position also a religious position for your husband and he wants to raise your children in the local evangelical church, or is it just that he doesn't accept evolution? Does he know you're hobnobbing with heretics and atheists in your spare moments?

Inquiring minds want to know! :D

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dragoness, posted 06-23-2007 12:23 AM Dragoness has responded

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Dragoness
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 51
From: SLT, CA
Joined: 06-21-2007


Message 21 of 39 (407024)
06-23-2007 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
06-23-2007 9:28 AM


Re: Faith
Dragoness writes:
My husband is the Creationist in this family, not me.

quote:
I wonder how often this happens. Is this just a friendly difference of opinion between you, or more than that? Is the creationist position also a religious position for your husband and he wants to raise your children in the local evangelical church, or is it just that he doesn't accept evolution? Does he know you're hobnobbing with heretics and atheists in your spare moments?

Inquiring minds want to know!


Well yes he knows, its not like I have this secret life from him. We share 2 different beliefs. My husband does not attend church and so its a non-issue. If he wants to teach our kids about God so-be-it, so long as he knows I will teach evolution as well. We believe it is up to our children to choose their own path with the tools we have provided.
As fas as he goes, he accepts evolution on a smaller scale. I believe the term is Theistic (spelling?)


This message is a reply to:
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 Message 23 by jar, posted 06-23-2007 2:13 PM Dragoness has responded

    
Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 22 of 39 (407025)
06-23-2007 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dragoness
06-23-2007 1:43 PM


Re: Faith
As fas as he goes, he accepts evolution on a smaller scale. I believe the term is Theistic (spelling?)

Actually, if I understand the term, theistic evolution accepts the four and a half billion years age of the earth and the Darwinian history of life on earth; what theistic evolutionsists believe is that God directly guided the evolution of life to produce humans.


Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 39 (407031)
06-23-2007 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Dragoness
06-23-2007 1:43 PM


Re: Faith
As fas as he goes, he accepts evolution on a smaller scale. I believe the term is Theistic (spelling?)

Actually, Theistic Evolutionists accept all of evolution, including man from something that was not man.

The problem with the "accept evolution on a smaller scale" position is that there is simply no mechanism that stops small scale changes from adding up over time to become large scale changes.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Dragoness, posted 06-23-2007 1:43 PM Dragoness has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Dragoness, posted 06-23-2007 2:17 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Dragoness
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 51
From: SLT, CA
Joined: 06-21-2007


Message 24 of 39 (407032)
06-23-2007 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
06-23-2007 2:13 PM


Re: Faith
Well if you want my TRUE opinion its that my husband is CONFUSED, but hey... I live with him.

He believes in Creation, though not literally (no young earth, not in 6-7 days etc) but also believes that evolution exists, just his answer seems to change on this pretty often.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-24-2007 1:04 PM Dragoness has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 39 (407129)
06-24-2007 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dragoness
06-23-2007 2:17 PM


Re: Faith
He believes in Creation, though not literally (no young earth, not in 6-7 days etc) but also believes that evolution exists, just his answer seems to change on this pretty often.

This would be a great site for him to participate in, as long as he doesn't jump in with more objective or absolute claims than he does with questions.

It seems like maybe he hasn't put a WHOLE LOT of thought into it and his ideas are still developing.

Well if you want my TRUE opinion its that my husband is CONFUSED

He's probably just ignorant. If he comes here and educates himself, the he can iron out the wrinkles in his beliefs.

Plus, if he likes to debate, it could be fun.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Dragoness, posted 06-23-2007 2:17 PM Dragoness has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 248 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 26 of 39 (407177)
06-24-2007 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by WS-JW
06-23-2007 2:10 AM


quote:
If you shut the door to your room, and think of these things, you come to the conclusion you were made and there is a God, why? because it's logical and makes sense.

Of course, if you then come out of your room, and actually get a science degree, or at least take a few college-level science courses, you see that what you thought while you were thinking all alone in your room, was wrong.

You see, ignorance is not a good basis for determining the truth of any natural phenomena.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by WS-JW, posted 06-23-2007 2:10 AM WS-JW has not yet responded

    
WS-JW
Junior Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 06-04-2007


Message 27 of 39 (407504)
06-26-2007 2:07 PM


Thats right, when everyone is alone, they use their brain and come to the conclusion there must be a God. Once you get out there and ditch your brain for a textbook that tells you fairy tales of making matter from no matter then no life to life, without any consious mind behind it. And you love evolutionist scientists stories and philosphisaztion who tell you what is truth, you become ignorant. And as the Bible says become slaves of men. You see, the devil hates you.
Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Chiroptera, posted 06-26-2007 2:11 PM WS-JW has not yet responded
 Message 34 by nator, posted 06-28-2007 10:09 AM WS-JW has not yet responded

  
Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 14 days)
Posts: 6531
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 28 of 39 (407505)
06-26-2007 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by WS-JW
06-26-2007 2:07 PM


Thats right, when everyone is alone, they use their brain and come to the conclusion there must be a God.

Well, not everyone. I used to be an evangelical Christian -- a fundamentalist who believed in a literal reading of the Bible, in fact. But over 25 years ago when I got alone and used my brain, I came to the conclusion that there is no god.

Edited by Chiroptera, : was to is


Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine
This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by WS-JW, posted 06-26-2007 2:07 PM WS-JW has not yet responded

  
WS-JW
Junior Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 30
Joined: 06-04-2007


Message 29 of 39 (407513)
06-26-2007 2:33 PM


Yes Chip, there will of course be other cases where the brain has become defetive and dumb. Dark and blackened, you may start to believe stories that billions of years ago there was a pond and a simple amoeba spring up on it's own... Oh, heres 2 problems already, how does it come on it's own? chemical formulee don't arise on it's own, and an amoeba is the last thing but simple. It requires direction. What I suggest to you is a mighty good phyciatrist.
Replies to this message:
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 Message 31 by NosyNed, posted 06-26-2007 3:00 PM WS-JW has not yet responded
 Message 32 by Chiroptera, posted 06-26-2007 6:22 PM WS-JW has not yet responded
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 Message 36 by PurpleYouko, posted 06-29-2007 2:58 PM WS-JW has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5377
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 30 of 39 (407514)
06-26-2007 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by WS-JW
06-26-2007 2:33 PM


Wow, WS-JW! It's awfully nice to know that you are the only one around with any handle on reality!

You arrogant twit!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by WS-JW, posted 06-26-2007 2:33 PM WS-JW has not yet responded

    
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